A new ceo for snba ?

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This is PURELY hypothetical Q:replacing ceo of snba ?

Poll ended at 28 Mar 2005, 14:43

 
Total votes: 0

sn-remember
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A new ceo for snba ?

Post by sn-remember »

I would like to suggest a poll on this thread.
Q: A new ceo for snba ?
Is it possible asking Luchtzak members opinion on this topic ?
Nothing personal against M. Kuipers, far from it but no praise showering either.

We are aware of the european airlines business changing at supersonic speed while snba is stagnating and it's time, don't you think ? to ask ourselves where we are heading to and in which hands we stand?

Snba is in statuquo since its creation 3 yrs ago carrying around 3Ms pax every year (btw the level of Sabena some 35 yrs ago !!! ...and Sabena was in no way a "huge" carrier) not losing money but not making much either.
I understand it is timidly considering the leasing of an additional a330 a/c pushing the total nr of l/h a/c to 4 units.

After all lots of airlines have been replacing their ceo
Swiss appointed a year ago M. Christoph Franz (ex mgr from LH) and everybody agrees it was a fortunate move.
BA is presently replacing the successful Rod Eddington with Willie Walsh who btw reportedly made "miracles" at EI.

Although I suppose the future of M. Eddington lies in Australia, I am just asking:
What if Rod Eddington (or another "winner" to be found) accepted to become the next ceo of snba ?
His missions a.o.
- give the company its vital weight
- implement partnesship(s) with key allied carrier(s)
- give the Co better prospects for the future

Thx for giving your opinion :)
Last edited by sn-remember on 23 Mar 2005, 13:43, edited 1 time in total.

BBKing
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Post by BBKing »

rather silly posting in my opinion

SNBA is making profits and is doing a good job. Never change a winning team ...

Changing the CEO because other carriers are doing the same thing ?? Should not be an example of good governance ...

LX-LGX
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Post by LX-LGX »

Rob Kuijpers is indeed doing a good job: SNBA keeps on flying, they're making a nett profit and there are no serious rumours about going on strike: the so called "social climate" is OK. Staff is even getting a bonus for their results.

If SNBA's shareholders were looking for a huge return on investment, there are better possibilities then airlines.

SN30952
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Post by SN30952 »

Honestly sn-remember, I do not see your point.
This is an aviation forum, not a soccer forum.

Hope this is spoonerism-free. Anyway it's SpellChecked.

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember »

I know it's just an "if ..." question.
But all human projects start like that.

I just wanted to know how you luchtzak readers feel about the idea of an hypothetical replacement at the head of snba ?
The propositions would be:

1. no way "you don't change a winning team"
2. yes if "somebody like M. Eddington" takes the reins

Is there an admin on this thread to start such a poll?
Thx (and no offence to anybody here I hope)

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

sn-remember wrote:Is there an admin on this thread to start such a poll?)
No need for an admin to start a poll. Just "edit" your first post of this thread and add the poll yourself!
André
ex Sabena #26567

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember »

Thx
Your vote pls ;-)

themole

Post by themole »

Please note that Rob Kuijpers is the Executive Chairman of SN Brussels Airlines, not the CEO. Peter Davies is the one and only CEO of SN Brussels Airlines.

beco
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New CEO for SNBA

Post by beco »

Very stupid question.
First of all, SNBA is not doing the mistakes Sabena did. BA is in trouble like several other companies.
A new CEO will only be interested in short term profit, probably running the company into trouble. He will go after a strong management fee as he will know that his tenure at the company will be short term. And he will try to merge the company with another airline, getting a bonus.

Keep Kuijpers, he's old and wise and doesn't need to build up a carreer any more. And more, the other boss is Davis.

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Comet
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Post by Comet »

How about Richard Branson, or the guy who was in charge of easyJet?

Image
The founder of easyJet - Stelios Haji-Ioannou.

Image

Both companies are successful, so they must do something right.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise

HorsePower
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Post by HorsePower »

Can someone explain me how is it possible to have 109%?!
no way "you don't change a winning team" 69% [ 9 ]
yes if "somebody like Rod Eddington could take the reins" 30% [ 4 ]

Total Votes : 13
Regards

Seb.

HorsePower
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Post by HorsePower »

I should stop smoking the curtains! As Bart kindly told me 60+39 make 99 not 109!

:oops: :oops: :oops:

I'm going to bed now!

Seb. :dance:
Last edited by HorsePower on 28 Mar 2005, 19:09, edited 1 time in total.

chrisflyer
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Post by chrisflyer »

A few thoughts on this:

- In my opinion, replacing a successful manager when he is performing well is sending the wrong message. To both your shareholders and your customers. Both Rob Kuijpers and Peter Davies are doing an excellent job at the moment, given the environment SN is operating in and the constraints it is subject to.
Snba is in statuquo since its creation 3 yrs ago carrying around 3Ms pax every year (btw the level of Sabena some 35 yrs ago !!! ...and Sabena was in no way a "huge" carrier) not losing money but not making much either.
- With all due respect, but comparing the market conditions of today with those of 35 years ago does not make much sense. It is obvious that Sabena was the wrong size, otherwise it would have survived, wouldn't it? All other factors (political influence, trade unions, etc) aside, it was in fact a serious network over-expansion that caused the demise of Sabena. SN has limited capital and does not have the potential to grow too fast. It is something the current management team has recognised and is able to implement well. Would you like them to blindly order 40 brand new aircraft, open dozens of new routes and increase frequency on a bunch of others? I guess I am not the only one who has a sudden déjà-vu when reflecting on that...
After all lots of airlines have been replacing their ceo
Swiss appointed a year ago M. Christoph Franz (ex mgr from LH) and everybody agrees it was a fortunate move.
BA is presently replacing the successful Rod Eddington with Willie Walsh who btw reportedly made "miracles" at EI.
- I beg to differ that the appointment of Christoph Franz was such a great move? In Germany he doesn't have the best reputation after having gotten fired from Deutsche Bahn for introducing a much too complicated fare structure. The only thing he did at Swiss was implement the savings scheme of his predecessor André Dosé and realise it wasn't capable of keeping the company up in the air. On a macro level I agree: he has led Swiss into negotiations with Lufthansa which has brought us one step closer to oh-so necessary consolidation in the industry.

- Willie Walsh still has to prove that he can perform similar "miracles" at BA as at Aer Lingus. While EI is in fact a medium-size local airline subject to direct and almost network-wide competition from O'Leary's lot, BA is a top-end global carrier - again operating in a different environment. Challenging the excellent business you're getting from your premium passengers by downgrading your own product (as Aer Lingus has done in the past) is not the way you want to go on that.
Although I suppose the future of M. Eddington lies in Australia, I am just asking:
What if Rod Eddington (or another "winner" to be found) accepted to become the next ceo of snba ?
His missions a.o.
- give the company its vital weight
- implement partnesship(s) with key allied carrier(s)
- give the Co better prospects for the future
- What would, in your opinion, be the "company's vital weight? :? And how about the current partnerships with AZ, BA, IB, AY, LX, AA and LO that are in place? No doubt, expansion towards the Middle/Far East through alignments would be welcome, but it would be harsh to assume that SN's management isn't working on that.
Changing the CEO because other carriers are doing the same thing ?? Should not be an example of good governance ...
- Exactly!

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts.

Happy landings,
Chris

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember »

I want to thank everybody for taking part to this poll and expressing their opinion on it. It was meant of course as a support for a critical and constructive discussion of the current snba mgt.

I believe we all agree that the primary objective of a balanced result is achieved for the past 2 years Hiphiphip for that but the congratulations stop there for some of us.
I believe we all agree that the present context of snba is difficult , the more so since it was positioned from the start as a regional carrier with very (too?) humble objectives (1st big mistake I believe) and we all know that lost ground is difficult to reconquer ...the more so when you struggle alone (outside an alliance)
The logical question to ask is there a fatality that snba remains at a so small business volume ? Could a new management change that without losing the current assets of a small regional carrier that succeeded to survive the 3 first yrs of its existence?
Some of you decided it was a "stupid" question. I'll simply quote the well known saying "there is no silly question, just silly answers"

Answers... I must admit that I was hoping more..
Yes indeed Comet there could be lots of other possible candidates to take the helm at snba.
Yes Chrisflyer, making wonders at AerLingus doesnt mean you'll be doing the same at BA.
And yes Beco, BA although not doing badly at all has still a heavy debt to support.
So besides the name of a manager , the main issue of course relates to the content of the job that should be done :
The job that was done so beautifully at EI?
The one that was done at BA by M. Eddington ?
The one Richard Branson did for Virgin-xx ?
Or the one Stelios Haji-Ioannou did for Easyjet?
Or possibly still a very different one, opening a new business development path ?
Or should we rather accept that the belgian carrier will remain more or less what it is now , a very minor carrier within Europe and pretty unknown in the world stage?
That is the question I am asking.

Chrisflyer :
It is obvious that Sabena was the wrong size, otherwise it would have survived, wouldn't it?
First of all I was speaking of the sabena of 35 yrs ago having more or less the same pax volume of snba today. Sabena, 35 yrs ago, was by no way too big...
Let me tell you this if you don't mind a 2 minute "off-topic" parenthesis : I never was an insider at sn (sabena or brusselsAirlines) however I never "lost sight" of the national carrier. I think lots of airlines observers will agree that 35/40 yrs ago sabena enjoyed quite a good reputation in the airlines business (probably one of the golden periods of sn) ito quality in air transport. Some of you mentioned rightly the chronic deficit of the state owned co. The ill-mgt was obviously the plague at sn plus unwanted difficulties with the social partners plus public servants too many unawarenesses. Nonetheless the company achieved quite remarkable results all along its history and that is also the "belgian miracle".
And secondly since you speak about the sn collapse, the size (as such!) of the Co in 2001 was probably not, in my view, the reason of the collapse. As everybody knows the swiss private mgt was lots lots more damaging than the public service chronic neglects and was fatal to the co. At sabena' s side (letting aside sr faults) I think that the growth was ill-planified: too quick and too costly. But the growth objective was not inconsiderate in my view on the contrary it was a condition for survival.

And therefore what is the "vital weight" of a co like snba ?
This is a matter for debate that I would certainly welcome.
My opinion is that the belgian carrier has a volume expectancy for +/- 10 Mio pax/yr. That would leave room for a 300% growth !!!
A challenging job for M. XXX whoever the future ceo of snba might be, don't you think :?:

flyexel
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Post by flyexel »

Has this poll something to do with the small turbulences inside SNBA due to their profit "checks" ? I've spoken Mr. Kuipers personally last week and it wouldn't even come up in me to change a man with such a sense of responsability.

I know that some of the cabin crew and pilots are not satisfied by the way the management awarded them,but I can not remember when in history the same thing was done....So instead of being "never happy" and complaining all the time,think once at the fact that this is for the very first time in long history that they awarded the people.Pilots are just like children,give them a finger and they want your arm!

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember »

flyexel :
...are not satisfied by the way the management awarded them
Why the hell are you linking awards with airlines business positioning :?:
Sorry Flyexel you are completely off-topic :roll:
Or is it a (childish) strategy to change the subject in order to avoid the core of the question ?

fly
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Post by fly »

Hello MR Flyexel,

I feel attacked by your post where you mentioned pilots are just like children......
I am a pilot, now you have to tell me why I am like a child?
I am a pilot with SN and don't want to say something about the company on this forum apart from that all cockpit and cabin crew at SN are doing a hell of a job to make this company work!
SN is moving forward in a sensible way with respect to their budget!

flyexel
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Post by flyexel »

Do you feel assaulted? Never meant it personally,but don't act like you deny the fact that pilots are always complaining!!Look into the mirror or listen to some of your colleages.

Dear Sn-remember,I'm not starting another topic,just reacting on what you've written.

apparently this is a very sensitive subject amongst pilots...

fly
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Post by fly »

dear Fly-exel,

you talk shit!
I just fly, try to do it well, if I am not happy I look for another job somewhere else.
Thats what the majority of us do.....
For now I am happy!
Don't forget we are like nomads every five years we change jobs mostly,thats not because we are unhappy but just because we found something better.
I have this theory that pilots become pilots because they don't want to get stuck in a day to daily life 24/7.
If they fly on the same aircraft to long or the same routes to long the life they lead becomes more like a deskjob doing the same things all over again, seeing the same things aal over again. Thats why pilots change often aircraft or company.
And yes I agree we moan alot ;-)

sn-remember
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Post by sn-remember »

Flyexel :
Dear Sn-remember,I'm not starting another topic,just reacting on what you've written.
apparently this is a very sensitive subject amongst pilots...
Flyexel, you are reacting offtopic.
The question if M. Eddington would distribute better awards is not related to this thread.
If you want to discuss the recently distributed awards , there is a thread for it (opened by EricAirlines 1 or 2 wks ago).
Also Fly and Flyexel if you want to discuss the pilots's job satisfaction, pls feel free to open a new thread since this is NOT the place to discuss it !

Since I opened this thread let me remind you the topic:
"What would - in your opiniion- be the added value of a hypothetical nomination of M. Eddington (currently ceo of BA) at the head of snba?"
I suggested 2 main axes :
1. expansion of the Co to reach a "critical mass" around key markets.(Europe and Africa probably to start with)
2. enhanced cooperation within patnerships and alliances (M. Eddington knows from the inside the BA and OneWorld strategy)
I would really appreciate if this thread could be kept inside the boundaries of the topic I just summurized again.
Thx to everybody to participate to this.(admin included :wink: )

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