Lufthansa & Swiss "To Unite"

MrAirbus · Post by **MrAirbus** » 11 Mar 2005, 09:11

Well here we go, this might be good for both of them:

........The chiefs of Lufthansa and loss-making Swiss International have broadly agreed on a planned union of the two carriers, a newspaper reported, citing Lufthansa sources.

Swiss's shareholders confirmed that talks in Switzerland have brought the two airlines closer together, Handelsblatt said on Thursday in a preview of its Friday edition........

http://news.airwise.com/story/view/1110484372.html

B744skipper · Post by **B744skipper** » 11 Mar 2005, 15:13

Would it be a wise move for Lufthansa to unite with a loss-making company?

But on the other hand, the "Lufthansa" and "Swiss" products could fit together, when considering the standards of service and so on.

If they would unite it probably will have major changes for Swiss, because Lufthansa would try to make the company profitable. It could cost "some" jobs then.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 11 Mar 2005, 17:51

I can only see one big prupose of LH being interested in Swiss.

If they aquire Swiss in the future they will try to bring as many pax as possible to MUC instead of ZRH. In my opinion they owuld try to close down most of the long haul routes and fly them out of MUC with bigger planes.
Don't forget that LH wants to make MUX a major hub in Europe as well....

Chris

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 12 Mar 2005, 11:47

Avro wrote:I can only see one big prupose of LH being interested in Swiss.
If they aquire Swiss in the future they will try to bring as many pax as possible to MUC instead of ZRH. In my opinion they owuld try to close down most of the long haul routes and fly them out of MUC with bigger planes.
Chris

You are probably right there Chris.
LH is buying the nuisance potential of LX.
How much woud you estimate it to be ?
Expensive? Then it woud mean LX has a bright future.
Cheap ? Means that LX has a poor future...but then LH doe not need to buy it...
However it seems LH is buying it after all (good point for LX management
but not sure it is a good point for the swiss airlines industry).

Don't forget that LH wants to make MUX a major hub in Europe as well....

And LX woud also have wanted to make zrh a major hub after the 2001/2002 earthquake...
And OS is still hoping to make VIE a major hub .
And AZ is also hoping to achieve the same in MIL...
So besides the 4 "tigers" we know (cdg,lhr,ams,fra) around bru, there woud be the 4 "wolves" (muc,zrh,mil,vie) around the Alps (not mentioning prg which is presently out of the competition with OK under the Skyteam umbrella)
But things are changing around the Alps and the "woolf" category could well mute into the "tiger" category for some at the expense of others.
LX has no more the teeth (or the apetite ?) to bite deep into this market as it used to ...
And what could be the future of MIL with an ailing AZ (a company I will strongly regret btw)? In theory MIL has everything to succeed as a major player ...it just lacks a successful home carrier.
LH besides its allied OS inside the star alliance is actively preparing the "after az".
Skyteam members af/kl also but from further away, cdg and ams, possibly mil ?

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 12 Mar 2005, 12:15

I filed a Latest News, there it says: negative decision: not all conditions are met.
Look also at the Lufthansa stock after the decision...
"LN" coming soon?

Post by **sn26567** » 12 Mar 2005, 16:11

LH is not as much interested in SWISS as in its platform of Zurich. It is trying to swallow SWISS to have a big foot in its main airport.

MrAirbus · Post by **MrAirbus** » 12 Mar 2005, 16:44

sn26567 wrote:LH is not as much interested in SWISS as in its platform of Zurich. It is trying to swallow SWISS to have a big foot in its main airport.

And I suppose since AF and KLM as merged non of them can take over SWISS, and only LH can’t afford such takeover right now!

Honestly its feels very natural for me that LH would take over and take care of that region right now. Its seems like it would be good for everyone!

Wonder if it really was a good idea to take over SwissAir at all. SWISS should have had started another way indeed!

Post by **sn26567** » 13 Mar 2005, 10:22

Not so fast! Before LH invests one euro-cent in SWISS, it will ask the current SWISS shareholders to inject 300 million Swiss francs in fresh capital...

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 13 Mar 2005, 15:19

That demand has been dropped by LH, following an article in the Neue Zuricher Zeitung....
IN return,LH has to garantee the maintaining of an intercontinental Hub ex ZUR and the financing of three additional A 340 's

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 13 Mar 2005, 18:44

http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/pr ... 55/HOM&s=0

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 13 Mar 2005, 18:56

beaucaire wrote: http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/html/pr ... 55/HOM&s=0

A quote form the article:
"The jointly developed business model aims at providing a concentration of the strengths of both airlines, while retaining the independence of SWISS to the extent possible."

As I said in a previous post. If LH takes over Swiss they will re-position most of the profitable and long hual destinations in MUC, while keeping Swiss as a smaller regional airline mostly feeding it's hub.

Chris

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 13 Mar 2005, 19:35

An interesting article: (in french, sorry

)
http://www.air-cosmos.com/AFP/preview.a ... koefa9.xml

Regards

Seb.

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 13 Mar 2005, 22:15

In english:
http://www.air-cosmos.com/AFP/preview.a ... 2h0nmv.xml

Seb.

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 14 Mar 2005, 13:55

There should likely be a place for a small hub in ZRH at the side of a wider hub as MUC (and MIL?) have the ambition to become.
After all that's what BRU is also aiming at but in a different context and with a different strategy.
And it is definitely helpful to join a prosperous and compatible patner to achieve this goal

Provided the partner shares your specific interests and that's the node of the debate.
The swiss are reportedly dreaded in business dealings..
Let's wait and see...

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 15 Mar 2005, 13:09

The french paper "Le Figaro" publishes this morning an article reporting that the deal is done (almost)
For those who read french :
http://www.lefigaro.fr/finances/20050315.FIG0032.html
Certainly a very good point for LX !

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 15 Mar 2005, 13:15

Well it's clear that Swiss has to merge with another airline in some way, otherwise they will be bankrupt seeing the money the constantly lose. But thinking that Swiss will be able to retain a lot of "profitable" routes is wishful thinking in my humble opinion.

Chris

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 15 Mar 2005, 13:54

Time will tell ;o)

Post by **sn26567** » 15 Mar 2005, 17:32

An article in La Tribune de Genève this morning lists SN BA as one of the next candidates for a take over, along with Iberia (by BA), SAS and Austrian (also by LH).

HorsePower · Post by **HorsePower** » 15 Mar 2005, 17:34

Thanks for the link, sn-remember.

Certainly a very good point for LX !

Certainly a very good point for LH!

Regards

Seb.

Avro · Post by **Avro** » 15 Mar 2005, 18:38

sn26567 wrote:An article in La Tribune de Genève this morning lists SN BA as one of the next candidates for a take over, along with Iberia (by BA), SAS and Austrian (also by LH).

I agree and BA will certainly be the one "buying" SN.

Chris