Brussels Airlines in 2024

[longwings]

'Fourth' - As you say, more frequencies and more direct flights is one the priority but also new destinations and there are plenty left. Thinking of Bamako, Libreville, Brazzaville, Lagos, Kilimanjaro, and way more. Cape Town shouldn't be the highest priority as United is already serving it and quite expensive to operate. A hub is not only about having 50 destinations but also having more choice to depart in a single day in order to facilitate connections, this has to be done on both sides, Africa and America. One clear example of this is Air France, having sometimes double or triple daily flights to african destinations, and Air France is one of the main target of this UA-AC-SN project.

Of the 5 cities in the US that attract the most immigrants from Africa over the past 10 years, 2 are United hubs, 1 is a Delta hub, and 1 is a hub to both. Air France and Delta will not sit idly by...

Canada is a lesser factor in the current network. Most African emigrants headed to Canada come from countries around the Mediterranean or Eastern Africa.

Edited bc I can't tell East from West

[longwings]

What I don't understand with pilots is that it's the top of the social basket; they can find a job wherever they want in any other company, why go on strike?

Seniority...

A pilot who moves to a new airline drops at the bottom of the seniority list for the aircraft type and position they hold. SN's most experienced A320 captain will become the most junior A320 captain if they move to another airline. At airlines where pilots and copilots get to choose the routes they fly, seniority drives the order in which they choose. Opportunities to move to another aircraft type, or from right seat to left seat, also come in order of seniority.

Then add quality of life... Family doesn't want to move, pilot doesn't want to commute...

Well nobody passt for your cherry picking.
You compare whole package in Option A vs whole package in Option B, not just what you like from others.

No one is denying there are pilots who make the switch despite the seniority hit. The poster asked why strike vs moving... The more seniority a pilot has, the less likely they are to be tempted by an offer elsewhere. Every airline will tell you that, whether you like it or not.

[oldblueeyes]

Good question, but I thought that OS's niche market was (far) Eastern Europe and the Balkans or is this a thing of the past ? (of course, it's not long haul). But what are LH and LX's niche markets ?
I seem to remember forum members contributions saying there is a demand for a non-stop BRU BOS flight.
So, my (perhaps naive) question is : why did not SN get a direct BRU BOS v.v. flight (and aircraft) while making Austrians connect at BRU to BOS ?
For those (who ???) who want to remain loyal to the LhGroup, from Brussels, flying to Boston, just to name one North American city, most of the time flying there means flying east first to fly west afterwards. Oh "God" wie tief Deine Wege !
.

OS had always a relatively strong US routing - Asia came historically via the consolidation of Lauda in the early 2000s.
And "Focus East " eg Eastern Europe was their straetgy pre - acquisition - which led to the 2 bn debt they had at the time LH bought them.

So OS has rather mainstream markets but no niches, whilst SN has niche markets and within the group these are protected, means no other brand is flying there.

Now - your BOS. You can fly there and even transfer trough any other airport the JV partner is flying, eg in UK or Ireland, no need to look after the hubs. And you ticket and money will still stay within the JV of the group.
So, you need to see United and Air Canada in the bigger picture as well and decisions are taken also counting their needs .

Now to the 321LR or XLR.
- first of all, all aircraft in the group are acquired centrally and than allocated to the brands
- as of today, there was no decision for the 321LR, but there were rumors that the 321XLR was developed to allow Airbus to sell into LH group as well
- nevertheless, ITA has 10 ordered so if their operations would be a success in the target niche markets they plan to serve ( Middle East markets where they can't fill a 339), there may by an open window for others in the group as well
- but... as usual, this would mean that the respective brand would need some critical mass of aircraft in it's own fleet adn have the resources to pay the lease rates as the market offers brand new only and show the group that the EUR invested brings more return than somewhere else

Under current market conditions the leae rate of a brand new A321XLR or LR may be higher than of a 12 years old A333 .. so than why go for small solutions?

[fcw]

A pilot who moves to a new airline drops at the bottom of the seniority list for the aircraft type and position they hold. SN's most experienced A320 captain will become the most junior A320 captain if they move to another airline. At airlines where pilots and copilots get to choose the routes they fly, seniority drives the order in which they choose. Opportunities to move to another aircraft type, or from right seat to left seat, also come in order of seniority.

Then add quality of life... Family doesn't want to move, pilot doesn't want to commute...

Well nobody passt for your cherry picking.
You compare while package in Option A vs whole package in Option B, not just what you like from others.

OBE, you don’t want to understand, do you?
Pilots have been very, very reasonable! There simply isn’t any replacement, as I explained in a previous post. SN is trying to recruit direct entry captains, the majority of the applicants is unsuitable and those who are suitable don’t want to work for the salary SN is offering. Pilots can basically ask want they want for the moment, whether you like it or not, it’s the reality. Even if a small minority chooses option A, SN will be struggling to crew the flights.

[oldblueeyes]

I understand very well, but there is as always a larger picture from the other side as well.

Before comitting as a company to somethig that is unreasonable on the long term, there are always options.

- employing wet lease companies to provde the services
- allocate capacity/ ressources to other bases/markets etc

Let's put it straight forward: if there is not enought pilot manpower to run the whole fleet, the commonality allows to transfer parts of it somewhere else.
If Air Baltic is operating massively eg for Swiss this summer, why would not in the future eg Avion Malta not operate 10 A320 for SN?

As legitimate your request may be and as understandable the willingness to use the momentum in the market, there is always another side of the table that has it's own options as well.

Ultimately, nobody can oblige the company to run a business without the outlook to earn money. That is the nature of any business and if things go wrong they are resized to the level where it is sustainable.

[Bracebrace]

I understand very well, but there is as always a larger picture from the other side as well.

Standard management answer that is not an answer at all.

It took 25 years in aviation (of which close to 20 as pilot) before I heard the first CEO say they fucked up.

There are a lot of illusions in management, one is that management is handling "that other side" in the best possible way. It can be handled dead wrong as well, even though they will never admit. There are capable people in management, however are there are many more uncapable as well. In the same way "difficult economic environment" should not be a protective harness for that same management.

[TimTam]

Good question, but I thought that OS's niche market was (far) Eastern Europe and the Balkans or is this a thing of the past ? (of course, it's not long haul). But what are LH and LX's niche markets ?
I seem to remember forum members contributions saying there is a demand for a non-stop BRU BOS flight.
So, my (perhaps naive) question is : why did not SN get a direct BRU BOS v.v. flight (and aircraft) while making Austrians connect at BRU to BOS ?
For those (who ???) who want to remain loyal to the LhGroup, from Brussels, flying to Boston, just to name one North American city, most of the time flying there means flying east first to fly west afterwards. Oh "God" wie tief Deine Wege !
.

OS had always a relatively strong US routing - Asia came historically via the consolidation of Lauda in the early 2000s.
And "Focus East " eg Eastern Europe was their straetgy pre - acquisition - which led to the 2 bn debt they had at the time LH bought them.

So OS has rather mainstream markets but no niches, whilst SN has niche markets and within the group these are protected, means no other brand is flying there.

Now - your BOS. You can fly there and even transfer trough any other airport the JV partner is flying, eg in UK or Ireland, no need to look after the hubs.

Under current market conditions the leae rate of a brand new A321XLR or LR may be higher than of a 12 years old A333 .. so than why go for small solutions?

I am going to play the devil's advocate. Wouldn't it be more expensive to lease a 12 year old A330, since the load factor might be lower (unless there is a lot of cargo, which should not be discarded, I agree) and an older A330 would burn more fuel ?

As to BOS, forgive me but I am not an LH Group fan
and the JV leaves me cold.
In addition, I do NOT want to connect in the UK and certainly not at LHR, and i seems there are not that many options via the UK or Ireland.

Imho, SN deserves a flight to BOS, ideally daily, or at least 5 flights per week (excluding days 2 and 3).

As to the A321LR, again imho, I think it is a mistake from the "Group", not to have this aircraft. I agree it should not be used on flights longer than eight hours, but for SN, would it not be a good option when it comes to end triangular flights and operate thinner Western and Central African routes (and to go daily, if the "Group" top managers had ordered an adequate number of A321LR ?

I have serious doubts about the profitability of the current BRU hub they are considering between North America and Africa.

Just, my two cents. Feel free to contradict me. No problem

[oldblueeyes]

There is no contradiction.

A discussion can be in disagreement, as various elements have a different improtance in the eye of the participants.

For example you see everything from a pure local prospective,which is legitimate and fair.
I see the group decisions - regardless if they are good or bad and their context.

My reality check is following:

- Top down, things are handled and negotiated in the JV where not only the LH brands have a stake to say, but also United and Air Canada
- the aim of the US routes is to link / feed more US travellers to African niche destinations within the JV
- following this, it makes absolutely sense if 1 leg, the TATL - is flown by a brand already known by the US customers - regardless of the reasons, SN is not there yet
- in a JV, SN would have anyhow the benefit, as cost/sales of the routes would be shared - you would fly with a SN number operated by United airlines

From an operational point of view, i would see difficulties to get a critical mass of 321 at BRU:
- looking to the European A321LR fleets, TAP has ordered 14, ITA 10 - there is a certain critical mass - whilst SAS is struggeling to use its own on decentral routes
- within the LH group there is a clear clean up of small subfleet - lately OS got rid of their 7 A319 as a subtype and nobody knows if they would get new A321 or harmonize to A320; SN is going the same direction
- thus a make or break it scenario would mean at least 8-10 A321LR - personally i don't see SN as of today having either the ressources to finance this as these would be all aircraft, nor i see the potential routes (aside personal individual preferences or "deserve" approach which is not data based)

In a realistic view, the affordable expansion of SN looks like following:
- roll over A319-320 in this decade, with the inboarding of the B737 likely at another brand additional A320 for short haul expansion may become available
- gradual expansion of at A333 fleet with available material within the group
- somewhere end of the decade roll over of the 333 to a new model

[rwandan-flyer]

I have serious doubts about the profitability of the current BRU hub they are considering between North America and Africa.

Just, my two cents. Feel free to contradict me. No problem

FT published few days ago a good article about Aviation in Africa. None airlines from Lufthansa Group are among the airline which carried the most of passengers in 2023. https://www.ft.com/content/b986faf2-739 ... a3c140f448

You can find 3 Star Alliance airlines, but cooperation between them and Lufthansa Group are weak. SN has not code share with Ethiopian and Turkish Airlines. Turkish Airlines has not code share with all airlines of the LH Group.

In this list you have Air France and Kenya Airways. Kenya Airways left the Joint Venture with AF KLM in 2021, but partnership with Air France is still important. The trio Delta / Kenya Airways / Air France works well at CDG.

Minneapolis, Houston, New York, Boston, Washington, Montreal and Toronto (all served from CDG) are among cities in North America where the demand with Africa is the highest.

I think at the Lufthansa Group HQ they are thinking that, AF / Delta / Kenya Airways are taking us many pax, so we have to react.

[JOVAN2]

Of course Ethiopian should be on top.
Yearly 15mio PAX to and from Addis.

In Canada they serve only Toronto
US: JFK, Newark, Chicago, Atlanta, Washinton.
LAX and Houston stopped.

Well, anyway SN and LH colleagues ate not even on the list
AF/KL are far ahead of them.

[DannyVDB]

Dear all,

It seems that OO-SBB left BRU to Nottingham to be painted. Curious to see which will the be the tomorrowland livery this time (or will it be the same Amare- design) ...

On the other hand OO-SFC is already in maintenance since a very long time now. Anyone knows why?

Cheers,
Danny

[sn26567]

A long, but interesting interview in Airways magazine about the Lufthansa strategy in East Africa, where Brussels Airlines is often mentioned, together with Lufthansa, Edelweiss and Discover. The Lufthansa Group General Manager for East Africa is, of course, German, but he seems to appreciate Brussels Airlines in a part of Africa where it has some strongholds: Kigali, Bujumbura, Entebbe, and soon Nairobi.

https://airwaysmag.com/lufthansa-group-east-africa/

[rwandan-flyer]

A long, but interesting interview in Airways magazine about the Lufthansa strategy in East Africa, where Brussels Airlines is often mentioned, together with Lufthansa, Edelweiss and Discover. The Lufthansa Group General Manager for East Africa is, of course, German, but he seems to appreciate Brussels Airlines in a part of Africa where it has some strongholds: Kigali, Bujumbura, Entebbe, and soon Nairobi.

https://airwaysmag.com/lufthansa-group-east-africa/

My bet, SN increases flights to Nairobi, while Lufthansa starts to serve Entebbe and Kigali

https://airwaysmag.com/lufthansa-group-east-africa/

[Miqvell]

Brussels Airlines can finally demonstrate its strength to Africa

Cheap long-haul flights, assistance to subsidiaries or regional transport: Lufthansa has had many half-hearted ideas for SN. Today, there is a plan with substance: SN must develop Africa for the group. The continent is seen as the last real growth area on long-haul. The group urgently needs sources of financing, and this is the only way it can achieve profitability of 8%.

From June, SN will be able to develop African traffic, which has long been reduced, and transform Zaventem into a hub for the group and its American partners. Just in time for the summer, SN will once again have 10 widebodies, compared with 8 previously. This will enable the airline to serve 18 African destinations, more than twice as many as the rest of the group. To fill these routes, United and Air Canada will at the same time offer additional connections to the European capital.

As a result, the partners expect several hundred million euros in additional sales between Brussels and North America. Lufthansa is benefiting from this because it is operating the traffic with United and Air Canada in a joint venture where costs and profits are shared. The latter are considerably higher than in the rest of the world.

But the real attraction lies in the development of the extremely lucrative African market. SN will initially be expanding its offer to existing destinations, but is also looking at new destinations. Traffic to this region is growing strongly, and ticket prices are even higher than on the other side of the Atlantic. This is mainly due to passengers who have little regard for price.

What's more, there is little competition. The African market is considered to be demanding, requiring a great deal of experience, and SN has it. Despite this, last year Lufthansa only carried 700,000 passengers on the continent. This is considerably less than Air France (1.4 million) or Turkish (1 million). The main reason for this was the group's strict performance guidelines. Although SN made money in Africa, it could only expand and receive new aircraft when it was back to profitability. Changes in the sector have also had an impact. For example, profits have long been falling in Asia, the main gold mine, and competition in the Gulf is offering cheaper flights.

At the same time, other sources of profit within the Group are in danger. For example, the former cash cow SWISS, which generated almost 14% of its turnover in the form of profits, will soon be unable to make any further progress due to the lack of slots and space problems in Zurich. In addition, the EU competition authorities are expected to demand that flight rights to Frankfurt, Vienna or Zurich be relinquished in return for the takeover of ITA. This would weaken profitable traffic with the USA in particular.

Source : WirtschaftsWoche

[Atlantis]

Brussels Airlines can finally demonstrate its strength to Africa

Cheap long-haul flights, assistance to subsidiaries or regional transport: Lufthansa has had many half-hearted ideas for SN. Today, there is a plan with substance: SN must develop Africa for the group. The continent is seen as the last real growth area on long-haul. The group urgently needs sources of financing, and this is the only way it can achieve profitability of 8%.

From June, SN will be able to develop African traffic, which has long been reduced, and transform Zaventem into a hub for the group and its American partners. Just in time for the summer, SN will once again have 10 widebodies, compared with 8 previously. This will enable the airline to serve 18 African destinations, more than twice as many as the rest of the group. To fill these routes, United and Air Canada will at the same time offer additional connections to the European capital.

As a result, the partners expect several hundred million euros in additional sales between Brussels and North America. Lufthansa is benefiting from this because it is operating the traffic with United and Air Canada in a joint venture where costs and profits are shared. The latter are considerably higher than in the rest of the world.

But the real attraction lies in the development of the extremely lucrative African market. SN will initially be expanding its offer to existing destinations, but is also looking at new destinations. Traffic to this region is growing strongly, and ticket prices are even higher than on the other side of the Atlantic. This is mainly due to passengers who have little regard for price.

What's more, there is little competition. The African market is considered to be demanding, requiring a great deal of experience, and SN has it. Despite this, last year Lufthansa only carried 700,000 passengers on the continent. This is considerably less than Air France (1.4 million) or Turkish (1 million). The main reason for this was the group's strict performance guidelines. Although SN made money in Africa, it could only expand and receive new aircraft when it was back to profitability. Changes in the sector have also had an impact. For example, profits have long been falling in Asia, the main gold mine, and competition in the Gulf is offering cheaper flights.

At the same time, other sources of profit within the Group are in danger. For example, the former cash cow SWISS, which generated almost 14% of its turnover in the form of profits, will soon be unable to make any further progress due to the lack of slots and space problems in Zurich. In addition, the EU competition authorities are expected to demand that flight rights to Frankfurt, Vienna or Zurich be relinquished in return for the takeover of ITA. This would weaken profitable traffic with the USA in particular.

Source : WirtschaftsWoche

Nice to read but unfortunately nothing new, just items which we knew already. I'm afraid that this big plan will be marginal.

If at FRA, VIE and Zurich they reach the limit, it should be a huge sign to put everything on BRU if the group wants to earn still money. It seems that they are stagnating or even decreased, BRU could be the solution. The B-pier has a lot of space free

[oldblueeyes]

Well, there are things in the article not well specified.
- MUC has capacity and currently growing- the next 10xA359 are going there replacing 5xA346
- FRA has limited terminal capacity, but this is sorted out once the " others" would go into terminal 3 and LH would get terminal 2 space
- ZRH has indeed constraints, but growing over airplane size and smaller in numbers eg 10xA359 replacing 9xA343 at Swiss and Edelweiss

- Overall the limitations are rather political, in emerging markets sich as India and China without open skies

For the moment there is bottleneck in seats, not in aircraft, but 10xA359 and 15xB789 are due to (late) delivery until early 2025 and this would open the reallocation puzzle :
- OS should get their 789 in a rhytm of 2 per each winter period
- the number of A346 in FRA is going up to 10 - their replacement are the ordered 10x351
- and these deliveries should start freeing the A333 subfleet , as additional 14 B789 would ve due to delivery until 2028

[b720]

Brussels Airlines can finally demonstrate its strength to Africa

Cheap long-haul flights, assistance to subsidiaries or regional transport: Lufthansa has had many half-hearted ideas for SN. Today, there is a plan with substance: SN must develop Africa for the group. The continent is seen as the last real growth area on long-haul. The group urgently needs sources of financing, and this is the only way it can achieve profitability of 8%.

From June, SN will be able to develop African traffic, which has long been reduced, and transform Zaventem into a hub for the group and its American partners. Just in time for the summer, SN will once again have 10 widebodies, compared with 8 previously. This will enable the airline to serve 18 African destinations, more than twice as many as the rest of the group. To fill these routes, United and Air Canada will at the same time offer additional connections to the European capital.

As a result, the partners expect several hundred million euros in additional sales between Brussels and North America. Lufthansa is benefiting from this because it is operating the traffic with United and Air Canada in a joint venture where costs and profits are shared. The latter are considerably higher than in the rest of the world.

But the real attraction lies in the development of the extremely lucrative African market. SN will initially be expanding its offer to existing destinations, but is also looking at new destinations. Traffic to this region is growing strongly, and ticket prices are even higher than on the other side of the Atlantic. This is mainly due to passengers who have little regard for price.

What's more, there is little competition. The African market is considered to be demanding, requiring a great deal of experience, and SN has it. Despite this, last year Lufthansa only carried 700,000 passengers on the continent. This is considerably less than Air France (1.4 million) or Turkish (1 million). The main reason for this was the group's strict performance guidelines. Although SN made money in Africa, it could only expand and receive new aircraft when it was back to profitability. Changes in the sector have also had an impact. For example, profits have long been falling in Asia, the main gold mine, and competition in the Gulf is offering cheaper flights.

At the same time, other sources of profit within the Group are in danger. For example, the former cash cow SWISS, which generated almost 14% of its turnover in the form of profits, will soon be unable to make any further progress due to the lack of slots and space problems in Zurich. In addition, the EU competition authorities are expected to demand that flight rights to Frankfurt, Vienna or Zurich be relinquished in return for the takeover of ITA. This would weaken profitable traffic with the USA in particular.

Source : WirtschaftsWoche

The point made that there is lack of competition on africa routes and pax disregard to cost of tickets is not true. That might have been the case 30 years ago.. but there is competition to SN .. and it’s frequencies are dwarfed when compared to the competition.. ET RAM rwandair tap Egyptair and obviously the gulf carriers that provide superior quality and service.

[oldblueeyes]

The article has little research and the author has a long history on writing missmatches with respect to LH.

Let's talk in 2 years about the Africa strategy, theb we'll see it, as the needed puzzle parts would be more than paper and assumptions.

[Conti764]

Brussels Airlines can finally demonstrate its strength to Africa

Cheap long-haul flights, assistance to subsidiaries or regional transport: Lufthansa has had many half-hearted ideas for SN. Today, there is a plan with substance: SN must develop Africa for the group. The continent is seen as the last real growth area on long-haul. The group urgently needs sources of financing, and this is the only way it can achieve profitability of 8%.

From June, SN will be able to develop African traffic, which has long been reduced, and transform Zaventem into a hub for the group and its American partners. Just in time for the summer, SN will once again have 10 widebodies, compared with 8 previously. This will enable the airline to serve 18 African destinations, more than twice as many as the rest of the group. To fill these routes, United and Air Canada will at the same time offer additional connections to the European capital.

As a result, the partners expect several hundred million euros in additional sales between Brussels and North America. Lufthansa is benefiting from this because it is operating the traffic with United and Air Canada in a joint venture where costs and profits are shared. The latter are considerably higher than in the rest of the world.

But the real attraction lies in the development of the extremely lucrative African market. SN will initially be expanding its offer to existing destinations, but is also looking at new destinations. Traffic to this region is growing strongly, and ticket prices are even higher than on the other side of the Atlantic. This is mainly due to passengers who have little regard for price.

What's more, there is little competition. The African market is considered to be demanding, requiring a great deal of experience, and SN has it. Despite this, last year Lufthansa only carried 700,000 passengers on the continent. This is considerably less than Air France (1.4 million) or Turkish (1 million). The main reason for this was the group's strict performance guidelines. Although SN made money in Africa, it could only expand and receive new aircraft when it was back to profitability. Changes in the sector have also had an impact. For example, profits have long been falling in Asia, the main gold mine, and competition in the Gulf is offering cheaper flights.

At the same time, other sources of profit within the Group are in danger. For example, the former cash cow SWISS, which generated almost 14% of its turnover in the form of profits, will soon be unable to make any further progress due to the lack of slots and space problems in Zurich. In addition, the EU competition authorities are expected to demand that flight rights to Frankfurt, Vienna or Zurich be relinquished in return for the takeover of ITA. This would weaken profitable traffic with the USA in particular.

Source : WirtschaftsWoche

Nice to read but unfortunately nothing new, just items which we knew already. I'm afraid that this big plan will be marginal.

If at FRA, VIE and Zurich they reach the limit, it should be a huge sign to put everything on BRU if the group wants to earn still money. It seems that they are stagnating or even decreased, BRU could be the solution. The B-pier has a lot of space free

In the afternoon, yes, but not in the morning.

And if BRU realy wants to offer a top notch transfer facility to SN/UA/AC and their partner airlines, they have to go ahead with A pier West. In my very humble opinion it should be the next project, even before the terminal extension.

[BigJets]

.

At 1:45 this morning under the cover of darkness, Brussels Airlines A320neo OO-SBB has returned from the paint shop at East Midlands and has been smuggled into hangar 41. Upcoming presentation to the press I presume ?
Its first commercial flight (in the new livery) is scheduled for tomorrow, April 26th to Tenerife.