Brussels Airlines in 2023

[Flanker2]

5 days later...OO-SNI still stuck in Vilnius ?

Seems to still be sitting AOG in Vilnius; must be something serious.

The tyre may have hit something else when it came off. It's rather explosive when that happens and seeing as how it was the inboard, it may have hit the doors or something else.
This is why you never stand next to a wheel, always fwd or aft.

[Homo Aeroportus]

....
This is why you never stand next to a wheel, always fwd or aft.

Your choice but remember :
on side : RIT, Rim-In-Teeth
on axis : RIF, Rubber-In-Face

H.A.

[Av24.be]

Aviation24.be asked Brussels Airlines for an update on OO-SNI, the aircraft is still located at Vilnius. An investigation that started just after the incident, on 21 June, is still ongoing. Experts will reveal their opinion in due time. The aircraft will return to Brussels once the necessary repairs have been concluded.

[HQ_BRU_Lover]

Any update on SNI + the NEO's?

[crew1990]

First Neo still plan for August (first flight in October), 5 secured for now (3 in 2023 and 2 in 2024), SN still seating in the waiting list for more of them from the LH group.

OO-SNI still in VNO no update about it neither

[luchtzak]

This afternoon, OO-SNI is scheduled to return from Vilnius, back in service tomorrow.

[PopUp]

I do not want to go SN bashing, but how could an incident like the one on the MAD BRU flight happen ? Flying two hours without air conditioning ? I do not understand. Please explain this to me
Thx

[crew1990]

I do not want to go SN bashing, but how could an incident like the one on the MAD BRU flight happen ? Flying two hours without air conditioning ? I do not understand. Please explain this to me
Thx

This situation did not happend in flight but during turnaround at the airport. No air conditioning in flight would mean no pressurisation, everything was working fine in flight.

From what I heard today, this was a double factor, APU not working but the aircraft was supposed to be connected to the Pre-Conditioned Air (PCA) systems of Madrid Airport wich wasn't working neither. This is what we call bad luck, hopefully there will be some learning from this incident.

[fcw]

From what I heard today, this was a double factor, APU not working but the aircraft was supposed to be connected to the Pre-Conditioned Air (PCA) systems of Madrid Airport wich wasn't working neither. This is what we call bad luck, hopefully there will be some learning from this incident.

These things do happen indeed, BUT, why board passengers when you have a 2 hour slot? Just delay boarding to minimise the discomfort. Why take an aircraft without an APU to Madrid, an airport where ground delays are common , during a heatwave is another question which should be asked to the person in the front left seat.
In general I noted SN is delaying the use of air conditioning on board to save money, even during COVID where it was an EASA recommendation to maximise the ventilation on board.

[KriVa]

On the first part of your question:
Because a slot can (and often does) improve at any point. If your slot suddenly jumps from two hours in the future to “you have to be airborne in 20 minutes or you miss your slot”, then you simply don’t have time to allow the passengers to wait in the terminal building until X minutes before the original slot. Slots are very dynamic (in both directions), which is why airlines choose to make sure their aircraft are ready as soon as possible, even if they have a slot two hours in the future.

[crew1990]

These things do happen indeed, BUT, why board passengers when you have a 2 hour slot? Just delay boarding to minimise the discomfort.

When having a slot we still board the PAX because as from the moment that the door are closed, a "ready message" is sent to ATC, aircraft can then leave earlier than foreseen if an opportunity arrises wich happend most of the time. I do understand the PAX frustration, as crew, we have this same one, we are onboard too, unfortunately this is how aviation work.

Why take an aircraft without an APU to Madrid, an airport where ground delays are common , during a heatwave is another question which should be asked to the person in the front left seat.

SN has contract with airport to use PCA, so leaving to MAD without APU was not an issue, but unfortunately, when the aircraft arrived at the stand, the PCA of the airport was not working.

In general I noted SN is delaying the use of air conditioning on board to save money, even during COVID where it was an EASA recommendation to maximise the ventilation on board.

This is not to save money, this is due to technical factor, I will let a pilot or engineer answer on that as I'm don't have the technical knowledge to answer properly to it. But this is not about saving money.

[fcw]

When having a slot we still board the PAX because as from the moment that the door are closed, a "ready message" is sent to ATC, aircraft can then leave earlier than foreseen if an opportunity arrises wich happend most of the time. I do understand the PAX frustration, as crew, we have this same one, we are onboard too, unfortunately this is how aviation work.

This is how aviation works with an operative air conditioning system! Slots do come forward, but not always, taking the risk with an inoperative APU is not justified and the captain was very lucky non of the passengers got heat related health issues.

SN has contract with airport to use PCA, so leaving to MAD without APU was not an issue, but unfortunately, when the aircraft arrived at the stand, the PCA of the airport was not working.

It always takes a while before the system is connected and it’s disconnected a while before startup, combined with the time needed to start an engine with an airstarter would have created very uncomfortable conditions in the cabin anyhow. A captain should know that and take it into consideration before operating an aircraft with a defect.

This is not to save money, this is due to technical factor, I will let a pilot or engineer answer on that as I'm don't have the technical knowledge to answer properly to it. But this is not about saving money.

I do have the technical knowledge and there is no such “technical factor”! Some airports do have noise regulations which limits the APU use, but only when ground airconditioning is provided. During boarding, not only at SN, I often see cockpit windows open because it’s too hot, passengers don’t have windows to open so instead of opening a window pilots should start the APU. Another cost saving annd uncomfortable procedure is switching off the airconditioning packs for take off.

[luchtzak]

No airline should operate an aircraft without proper airconditioning during a hot summer season, ever.

[Darjeeling]

From what I heard today, this was a double factor, APU not working but the aircraft was supposed to be connected to the Pre-Conditioned Air (PCA) systems of Madrid Airport wich wasn't working neither. This is what we call bad luck, hopefully there will be some learning from this incident.

These things do happen indeed, BUT, why board passengers when you have a 2 hour slot? Just delay boarding to minimise the discomfort. Why take an aircraft without an APU to Madrid, an airport where ground delays are common , during a heatwave is another question which should be asked to the person in the front left seat.
In general I noted SN is delaying the use of air conditioning on board to save money, even during COVID where it was an EASA recommendation to maximise the ventilation on board.

I cannot agree more… since around 2014 cockpit crews have been instructed to turn the APU on when the pushback clearance is being given… at the earliest (MH sector, not LH). This in order to save money. Pilots not complying can face an « interview » with the fleet manger sooner than later. And this not withstanding the station you’re flying to/from. The famous « da moet niks kosten » dearly held by SN management for years… the rest of the communication washing (APU inop, GPU not available…) is pure « excuses » bs of the internal com dpt. Period.

[Lux_avi]

I cannot agree more… since around 2014 cockpit crews have been instructed to turn the APU on when the pushback clearance is being given… at the earliest (MH sector, not LH). This in order to save money. Pilots not complying can face an « interview » with the fleet manger sooner than later. And this not withstanding the station you’re flying to/from. The famous « da moet niks kosten » dearly held by SN management for years… the rest of the communication washing (APU inop, GPU not available…) is pure « excuses » bs of the internal com dpt. Period.

When the pushback clearance is given, you have to be ready for pushback.
It's not at that time that you start the APU, disconnect the GPU and eventually remove the bridge.

You also must be forgetting pretty much all airports nowadays have noise restrictions and limit the use of the APU (usually around 5 to 15' after arriving at the gate until 5 to 15' before STD), with exceptions under some circumstances. Here again, nobody would turn the APU off with 40°C outside, pax inside, and no airport A/C available. Being called in the office for this just doesn't make any sense.

Also, slots move around all the time. You never know what's going to happen with those CTOT's. Sadly enough, you could be having a good CTOT with a minor delay and end up waiting for an hour for no apparent reason. Who knows here if their 2 hour slot was known before boarding?

[Lux_avi]

No airline should operate an aircraft without proper airconditioning during a hot summer season, ever.

Right. So if the APU fails outstation, just leave the aircraft there. Period.

Perhaps those airports where 40°C temperatures are not uncommon should get their air-conditioning working too...?

[fcw]

slots move around all the time. You never know what's going to happen with those CTOT's. Sadly enough, you could be having a good CTOT with a minor delay and end up waiting for an hour for no apparent reason. Who knows here if their 2 hour slot was known before boarding?

True, but in that case a simple call from the flight planning department to CFMU (central flight management unit of Eurocontrol) explaining the exceptional circumstances would, almost certainly, have solved the problem.
External circumstances didn’t help, but his flight has been badly managed by the airline and the pilot in command, from the beginning till the end, full stop!
The least they can do is apologise to the passengers and offer them some compensation, eg an upgrade or discount voucher for a future flight.

[Lux_avi]

True, but in that case a simple call from the flight planning department to CFMU (central flight management unit of Eurocontrol) explaining the exceptional circumstances would, almost certainly, have solved the problem.
External circumstances didn’t help, but his flight has been badly managed by the airline and the pilot in command, from the beginning till the end, full stop!
The least they can do is apologise to the passengers and offer them some compensation, eg an upgrade or discount voucher for a future flight.

Everybody here supposes the captain knew they had a CTOT 2 hours after STD. Who ever said it was the case?
Perhaps they hat a CTOT on time, missed it (Spanish ATC is also reckless in their traffic management, it is even worse since TSAT, TOBT & co) and got a much worse CTOT that either never improved or got even worse.

Lots of suppositions here but very few facts. Nobody can tell the captain fucked up without having all the information.

Should SN have sent another aircraft to MAD? Hell yes, but was that even possible...? Probably not.
Should airports take extra care of their equipment? YES ! How often do you arrive at a gate and get told the GPU and/or air conditioning do not work?
Should CFMU improve? YES ! It is a total mess, you NEVER know what's going to happen to your CTOT. Ready to go, ready message sent, and despite all that you can get your CTOT being pushed back all the time. Exceptional circumstances? Really? APU INOP? Why would they care at all...

That CFMU thing is certainly to be blamed too, but the public doesn't know what that is nor how it works, so who gets to be blamed? Well, the captain. Great, he has to deal with an APU INOP, with an airport that has malfunctioning equipment (they were probably also not allowed to start their engines before CTOT either) and with a flow "management" that makes no sense. Really? The captain?

[fcw]

Everybody here supposes the captain knew they had a CTOT 2 hours after STD. Who ever said it was the case?
Perhaps they hat a CTOT on time, missed it (Spanish ATC is also reckless in their traffic management, it is even worse since TSAT, TOBT & co) and got a much worse CTOT that either never improved or got even worse.

Lots of suppositions here but very few facts. Nobody can tell the captain fucked up without having all the information.

Should SN have sent another aircraft to MAD? Hell yes, but was that even possible...? Probably not.
Should airports take extra care of their equipment? YES ! How often do you arrive at a gate and get told the GPU and/or air conditioning do not work?
Should CFMU improve? YES ! It is a total mess, you NEVER know what's going to happen to your CTOT. Ready to go, ready message sent, and despite all that you can get your CTOT being pushed back all the time. Exceptional circumstances? Really? APU INOP? Why would they care at all...

Either they knew and shouldn’t have boarded either they missed the slot and got a new one two hours later. I am absolutely sure if flight planning calls CFMU and explains an aircraft, without an APU, just missed the slot by a couple of minutes and now has to wait two hours with 45 degrees inside, which is a health and safety issue, the slot would have been cancelled. Been there, done that more than once!

Taking the aircraft to Madrid should, as yous said, never have happened and there it’s the pilot in command who had the final authority. Putting the aircraft on a less challenging route should have been possible, but there again you need resources and experience, unfortunately both are a bit lacking after SN forced many experienced employees into retirement three years ago.

[Lux_avi]

Either they knew and shouldn’t have boarded either they missed the slot and got a new one two hours later. I am absolutely sure if flight planning calls CFMU and explains an aircraft, without an APU, just missed the slot by a couple of minutes and now has to wait two hours with 45 degrees inside, which is a health and safety issue, the slot would have been cancelled. Been there, done that more than once!

Taking the aircraft to Madrid should, as yous said, never have happened and there it’s the pilot in command who had the final authority. Putting the aircraft on a less challenging route should have been possible, but there again you need resources and experience, unfortunately both are a bit lacking after SN forced many experienced employees into retirement three years ago.

Ok, so why didn't they receive any improvement then...?
You think their ops & their pilots don't know what a ready message or a call to Eurocontrol is?