Air Belgium in 2023

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PopUp

Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by PopUp »

Vic Diesel wrote: 11 May 2023, 11:56
flo82b wrote: 11 May 2023, 10:44 Frequencies have temporarily further reduced in May and June. Cape Town is axed for 4 weeks and Johannesburg and Mauritius reduced to one weekly rotation.
It's a pity: planning a trip to ZA, I was seriously considering KF as they would have offered convenient non-stop flights to both CPT and JNB. But now I am reconsidering as it seems to risky to book with an airline that could possibly cancel more flights and ruin the trip. So let's see what "grandmother" (rather "stepmother") Hansa has on offer...
Just on a personal note, I always use expedia.be to compare ticket prices. I find them better than the other booking platforms. You might find a good deal with another airline than (step)mama hansa ;)

Stij
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Stij »

If you're price sensitive... Ethiopian...

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Passenger »

Aviation Investment Holding (Avia Invest), a Belgian based nv/sa from Hong Kong residents, was the very first (and sole) investor in Air Belgium (ABB). Avia Invest was unhappy with the developments and the new business plan (like the cancellation of Hong Kong), which resulted in Avia Invest holding on 31sty Dec 2021 only 9,44% of the ABB shares. Avia Invest took ABB to court about these developments.

On 07th March 2023, Alexey Sumchenko, Managing Director Avia Invest, reported that all court procedures have been ended by an out of court a settlement. Sumchenko: “les parties ont mis fin à ces différentes procédures der commun accord, moyennant la cession par la Société de la vente de la totalité de sa participation dans Air Belgium”.

As the investment in Air Belgium was Avia Invest’s only aim, Avia Invest will most probably go into voluntary liquidation.

(source: National Bank of Belgium)

PopUp

Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by PopUp »

Certainly very interesting, but could you explain to me (sorry for being selfish) as you would explain this to a ten-year old child (which I am not, since I already have a higher education degree) what this concrètement means and implies. Thank you.

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Atlantis »

PopUp wrote: 12 May 2023, 22:39 Certainly very interesting, but could you explain to me (sorry for being selfish) as you would explain this to a ten-year old child (which I am not, since I already have a higher education degree) what this concrètement means and implies. Thank you.
What member Passenger give here as information is always interesting and based on facts.

Passenger
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Passenger »

PopUp wrote: 12 May 2023, 22:39 Certainly very interesting, but could you explain to me (sorry for being selfish) as you would explain this to a ten-year old child (which I am not, since I already have a higher education degree) what this concrètement means and implies. Thank you.
When you invest 10M, you have 100% of all shares.
When another investor steps in with 10M, both investors have 50%.
When another investor steps in with 10M, all three now have 33%.
On 31/12/2021, there were so many investors that Avia Invest only had 9,44% of the shares.

With 100%, you run the place.
With 9,44%, you don’t. When the 90,56% others decide something that you don’t like, you can go to court and ask the judge to protect your initial investment of 10M ("bescherming minderheidsaandeelhouder").

That pending court case Avia Invest versus Auir Belgium is now cancelled via an out of court settlement. Both parties thus give in, but both parties avoid a loss in court.

Matt
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Matt »

Vic Diesel wrote: 11 May 2023, 11:56
flo82b wrote: 11 May 2023, 10:44 Frequencies have temporarily further reduced in May and June. Cape Town is axed for 4 weeks and Johannesburg and Mauritius reduced to one weekly rotation.
It's a pity: planning a trip to ZA, I was seriously considering KF as they would have offered convenient non-stop flights to both CPT and JNB. But now I am reconsidering as it seems to risky to book with an airline that could possibly cancel more flights and ruin the trip. So let's see what "grandmother" (rather "stepmother") Hansa has on offer...
Called it :roll:

@Vic Diesel : I always use British Airways for SA . They are using a twice daily A380 now on JNB. (I just love A380's for red-eyes, super relaxing and quiet plane) Also: visit Pilanesberg if you are going for leisure

PopUp

Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by PopUp »

Passenger wrote: 13 May 2023, 22:28
PopUp wrote: 12 May 2023, 22:39 Certainly very interesting, but could you explain to me (sorry for being selfish) as you would explain this to a ten-year old child (which I am not, since I already have a higher education degree) what this concrètement means and implies. Thank you.
When you invest 10M, you have 100% of all shares.
When another investor steps in with 10M, both investors have 50%.
When another investor steps in with 10M, all three now have 33%.
On 31/12/2021, there were so many investors that Avia Invest only had 9,44% of the shares.

With 100%, you run the place.
With 9,44%, you don’t. When the 90,56% others decide something that you don’t like, you can go to court and ask the judge to protect your initial investment of 10M ("bescherming minderheidsaandeelhouder").

That pending court case Avia Invest versus Auir Belgium is now cancelled via an out of court settlement. Both parties thus give in, but both parties avoid a loss in court.
Thank you !

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Vic Diesel
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Vic Diesel »

Matt wrote: 14 May 2023, 16:29
Vic Diesel wrote: 11 May 2023, 11:56
flo82b wrote: 11 May 2023, 10:44 Frequencies have temporarily further reduced in May and June. Cape Town is axed for 4 weeks and Johannesburg and Mauritius reduced to one weekly rotation.
It's a pity: planning a trip to ZA, I was seriously considering KF as they would have offered convenient non-stop flights to both CPT and JNB. But now I am reconsidering as it seems to risky to book with an airline that could possibly cancel more flights and ruin the trip. So let's see what "grandmother" (rather "stepmother") Hansa has on offer...
Called it :roll:

@Vic Diesel : I always use British Airways for SA . They are using a twice daily A380 now on JNB. (I just love A380's for red-eyes, super relaxing and quiet plane) Also: visit Pilanesberg if you are going for leisure
Being a Star Alliance flyer (since my "home leave" trips BRU-VIE are flown by SN or OS), I am always looking for *A carriers first. That on the other hand would mean a dreadful transit through FRA (dreadful because luggage could well be left unloaded like literally millions of luggages last summer) or more rather exotic routings. But indeed, I was considering BA as well...

Pilanesberg - thanks for the recommendation, looks interesting indeed. I was more thinking of the CPT area (incl. Stellenbosch and Hermanus) combined with a couple of days in KNP.

Sorry for the offtopic.
Best regards,
Viktor

(Budapest-born, Vienna-raised, Brussels-based)

Stij
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Stij »

Vic Diesel wrote: 24 May 2023, 16:22
Pilanesberg - thanks for the recommendation, looks interesting indeed. I was more thinking of the CPT area (incl. Stellenbosch and Hermanus) combined with a couple of days in KNP.

Sorry for the offtopic.
Doesn't Lufti also fly out of MUC to CPT? Or is that only during the winter season?

When going to Hermanus before November... go see the Whales! Really worth it.
If you need recommendations for wineries, PM me.

PS Yes, off-topic! Sorry...

Matt
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Matt »

Vic Diesel wrote: 24 May 2023, 16:22
Matt wrote: 14 May 2023, 16:29
Vic Diesel wrote: 11 May 2023, 11:56
It's a pity: planning a trip to ZA, I was seriously considering KF as they would have offered convenient non-stop flights to both CPT and JNB. But now I am reconsidering as it seems to risky to book with an airline that could possibly cancel more flights and ruin the trip. So let's see what "grandmother" (rather "stepmother") Hansa has on offer...
Called it :roll:

@Vic Diesel : I always use British Airways for SA . They are using a twice daily A380 now on JNB. (I just love A380's for red-eyes, super relaxing and quiet plane) Also: visit Pilanesberg if you are going for leisure
Being a Star Alliance flyer (since my "home leave" trips BRU-VIE are flown by SN or OS), I am always looking for *A carriers first. That on the other hand would mean a dreadful transit through FRA (dreadful because luggage could well be left unloaded like literally millions of luggages last summer) or more rather exotic routings. But indeed, I was considering BA as well...

Pilanesberg - thanks for the recommendation, looks interesting indeed. I was more thinking of the CPT area (incl. Stellenbosch and Hermanus) combined with a couple of days in KNP.

Sorry for the offtopic.
Dont forget bettiesbaai for pinguins, visit a vineyard for wine tasting and food! and visit Tsitsikamma :D KNP has become a letdown for me.

But indeed. Off topic.

Anyone an idea as to when the flights to CPT would return? If they are returning.

Stij
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Stij »

Matt wrote: 25 May 2023, 08:41 Anyone an idea as to when the flights to CPT would return? If they are returning.
June 11th

EBKT
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by EBKT »


brabel
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by brabel »

brabel wrote: 31 May 2023, 15:01 'Wat bestemmingen betreft, zien we een uitbreiding naar een twintigtal rechtstreeks aangevlogen bestemmingen in de komende vijf jaar.'

'Als we spreken over een ambitie van 20 directe long haul vluchten, dan betekent dit ook dadelijk minstens 50 indirecte bestemmingen, waarvan Air Belgium de “long haul feeder” is'
They want to go to 20 direct destinations within 5 years. With feeder flights up to 50.

I do wish them the best. I also hope they find feeder flights within Europe.

crew1990
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by crew1990 »

It seems very optimistic for me in my opinion, would be great if they succeed and I wish them the best but I honestly have some doubt. Even SN does not have 20 long haul destination while they are part of a major group in an alliance and not a stand alone airline.

nordikcam
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by nordikcam »

crew1990 wrote: 01 Jun 2023, 00:26 It seems very optimistic for me in my opinion, would be great if they succeed and I wish them the best but I honestly have some doubt. Even SN does not have 20 long haul destination while they are part of a major group in an alliance and not a stand alone airline.
Yes, but the major group is organized around LH and LX...from crumbs to others who can survive...SN has no long-haul planes and no network ( except Africa )..that's all! I fly AF from CDG...for what reason ?

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Atlantis »

Everyone hopes of course that it will be a success. But 20 long haul is a lot and you need a lot of planes for that.

Per new long haul route you need a lot of capital. The first year is even no profit on it. If you do this by 20...

They need to secure theselfs with a good solid financial basis. Maybe even looking for new investors. And keeping margin for times that it will not be good, like e.g. higher full prices.

VEX802
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by VEX802 »

https://simpleflying.com/air-greenland- ... ok&fbclid=


Air Greenland will operate an Airbus A330neo from Air Belgium until Saturday, June 3, as its damaged aircraft undergoes repairs.

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Conti764
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Conti764 »

I wish them all the luck. If everything works out fine, they could even replace SN as the de facto 'flag carrier'.

Does anyone know what BRU's position towards AB is? BAC is quite focussed on SN, which is logic, but if Niki Terzakis can do what he says in the interview, in the loger term AB could have a far bigger value to BRU than SN...

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Atlantis
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Re: Air Belgium in 2023

Post by Atlantis »

Conti764 wrote: 02 Jun 2023, 09:07 I wish them all the luck. If everything works out fine, they could even replace SN as the de facto 'flag carrier'.

Does anyone know what BRU's position towards AB is? BAC is quite focussed on SN, which is logic, but if Niki Terzakis can do what he says in the interview, in the loger term AB could have a far bigger value to BRU than SN...
BRU has of course a very positive attitude towards Air Belgium. At the moment all flights are going via BRU and all parked planes are at BRU. This also bcs of better maintenance facilities.

It's of course the decision of the shareholders from where they will fly, but by opening new routes or flying with new planes like B748F and A330Neo they receive very nice discounts.

Both will grow, SN and Air Belgium. For SN we know already that there are plans for a further future. In the case of Air Belgium, this is first see it before believing it.

But regarding flying from CRL, it's remarkable that TUI withdrown fully from there and concentrate as much as possible on BRU. The same happened with Air Belgium.

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