Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

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fcw
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by fcw »

rwandan-flyer wrote: 20 Jun 2022, 22:05 It seems that some outbound passengers flights were operated today. The SN flight to Kigali left BRU with a 2 hours delay https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sn467
Did they have passengers on board or was it positioning to operate the return?

Luke777
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Joined: 13 Mar 2017, 21:02

Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Luke777 »

There is one major reason and its called RYANAIR, RYANAIR is responsible for the decline of aviation. O'Leary has forced lots of airlines into loss...
Is it normal that passengers can fly to Spain at a cheaper price than by bus or train ?? Airline tickets below 100 euros should be abolished ! Our SN Brussels Airlines was also obliged to introduce lowcost fares..these flights do not generate any profit...

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b.lufthansa »

The airline has requested employees if they want to strike or not, based upon this information, they will decide which flights will continue and which flights will be cancelled.

The conflict between management and unions seems loctite, as far as I know no new negotiations have started.

convair
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by convair »

fcw wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 00:12
rwandan-flyer wrote: 20 Jun 2022, 22:05 It seems that some outbound passengers flights were operated today. The SN flight to Kigali left BRU with a 2 hours delay https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/sn467
Did they have passengers on board or was it positioning to operate the return?
There also was a SN357 to Kinshasa.

Both returned to BRU last night.

I would guess they were not positioning flights but normal passengers flights: they both "duplicated" the return of flights (SN1359 and SN459/460) that had left BRU on June 19 and had overnighted in Africa.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b.lufthansa »

According to my source, the airline used the former crew screening area at the bhouse building to screen passengers and crew. A bus then dropped off crew and passengers to the flights.

Lux_avi
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Lux_avi »

Luke777 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 10:11 There is one major reason and its called RYANAIR, RYANAIR is responsible for the decline of aviation. O'Leary has forced lots of airlines into loss...
Is it normal that passengers can fly to Spain at a cheaper price than by bus or train ?? Airline tickets below 100 euros should be abolished ! Our SN Brussels Airlines was also obliged to introduce lowcost fares..these flights do not generate any profit...
Ryanair, or the EU ?

MOL was smart by using the failures of the EU. He created a successful business, not that I defend this model (on the contrary), but I'm not sure he's the one to blame.

b720
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b720 »

Luke777 wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 10:11 There is one major reason and its called RYANAIR, RYANAIR is responsible for the decline of aviation. O'Leary has forced lots of airlines into loss...
Is it normal that passengers can fly to Spain at a cheaper price than by bus or train ?? Airline tickets below 100 euros should be abolished ! Our SN Brussels Airlines was also obliged to introduce lowcost fares..these flights do not generate any profit...
A few seats on each flight are sold for those cheap prices.
One can pay 200-300 EUR (and more) one way on Ryanair as well.
Same with easyJet .. if Ryanair can make money with this model, good for them. Brussel airlines has been losing money on every model they tried.

Passenger
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Passenger »

b.lufthansa wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:44 The airline has requested employees if they want to strike or not, based upon this information, they will decide which flights will continue and which flights will be cancelled.

The conflict between management and unions seems loctite, as far as I know no new negotiations have started.
A strike is always disgusted as it's aim is to bully/harrass passengers. For this strike, it's much worse. It will cost Brussels Airlines millions of Euro's, but the company can't afford that. The trade unions know the figures: a loss for BY-2021 of 181.416.722 EUR, a cumulated loss of 695.676.868 EUR on 31/12/2021, and own assets (eigen vermogen) down to minus 389.679.371 EUR on 31/12/2021. Add to that an operational loss of some 50M EUR for 1Q-2022, and there is only one conclusion: it's the Titanic. The ship is going down, the trade unions and the crew know it, but they don't care. Corona? Exploding fuel prices? We know it but we ignore it. We want a raise.

With this kind attitude of a major part of their staff, a company is doomed.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b.lufthansa »

During summer last year, crew has flow difficult rosters last year, with heavy duties and long days. Also long times away from family and friends and lack of rest at home. A social balance is important.

During meetings, unions have asked a dozen of times to have a better balance between social and work life. In fact, crew that I know is proud of his job and loves to work, but not in these conditions.

A strike in December didn't seem to solve the issue, and after many negotiations the same heavy duties, long days and lack of rest at home appear on everybody's roster during a busy summer, even worse!

Roster are not published on time (social balance, remember?), money not paid on time (hello, bills?), HR management can be reached if you have two to six weeks waiting time, errors in technical unemployment information so crew can now pay back hundreds or thousands of €€€'s to the RVA ?? would you like to know more?

De kruik gaat zolang te water tot hij barst.

Crew can only take so much until they snap.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b.lufthansa »

I am interested to see a roster of a crew member working for Lufthansa, SWISS or Eurowings. Somebody can provide me this? In private message please.

Lux_avi
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Lux_avi »

Passenger wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 10:58
b.lufthansa wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:44 The airline has requested employees if they want to strike or not, based upon this information, they will decide which flights will continue and which flights will be cancelled.

The conflict between management and unions seems loctite, as far as I know no new negotiations have started.
A strike is always disgusted as it's aim is to bully/harrass passengers. For this strike, it's much worse. It will cost Brussels Airlines millions of Euro's, but the company can't afford that. The trade unions know the figures: a loss for BY-2021 of 181.416.722 EUR, a cumulated loss of 695.676.868 EUR on 31/12/2021, and own assets (eigen vermogen) down to minus 389.679.371 EUR on 31/12/2021. Add to that an operational loss of some 50M EUR for 1Q-2022, and there is only one conclusion: it's the Titanic. The ship is going down, the trade unions and the crew know it, but they don't care. Corona? Exploding fuel prices? We know it but we ignore it. We want a raise.

With this kind attitude of a major part of their staff, a company is doomed.
Take care of your employees and they’ll take care of your company.

You know how much more LH/AF/LX/& co pilots are paid more, to work less? Probably not.

You know what kind of rosters SN staff now has?
Probably not.

The more posts you have here, the less people seem to really know what’s going on outside the WWW.

Surely they are in a bad shape, believing their staff is not aware of that is ridiculous, and it only shows how clueless one can be of the actual situation.

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lumumba
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by lumumba »

Lux_avi wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 20:14
Passenger wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 10:58
b.lufthansa wrote: 21 Jun 2022, 12:44 The airline has requested employees if they want to strike or not, based upon this information, they will decide which flights will continue and which flights will be cancelled.

The conflict between management and unions seems loctite, as far as I know no new negotiations have started.
A strike is always disgusted as it's aim is to bully/harrass passengers. For this strike, it's much worse. It will cost Brussels Airlines millions of Euro's, but the company can't afford that. The trade unions know the figures: a loss for BY-2021 of 181.416.722 EUR, a cumulated loss of 695.676.868 EUR on 31/12/2021, and own assets (eigen vermogen) down to minus 389.679.371 EUR on 31/12/2021. Add to that an operational loss of some 50M EUR for 1Q-2022, and there is only one conclusion: it's the Titanic. The ship is going down, the trade unions and the crew know it, but they don't care. Corona? Exploding fuel prices? We know it but we ignore it. We want a raise.

With this kind attitude of a major part of their staff, a company is doomed.
Take care of your employees and they’ll take care of your company.

You know how much more LH/AF/LX/& co pilots are paid more, to work less? Probably not.

You know what kind of rosters SN staff now has?
Probably not.

The more posts you have here, the less people seem to really know what’s going on outside the WWW.

Surely they are in a bad shape, believing their staff is not aware of that is ridiculous, and it only shows how clueless one can be of the actual situation.
In the world of Passagers strike would be forbidden!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Passenger
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Passenger »

You have no idea at all what "...a cumulated loss of 695.676.868 EUR on 31/12/2021..." means, do you? You think "cumulated loss" is just something for accountants and statisticians, don't you?

Let me explain it, related to Brussels Airlines and Lufthansa. Even if Brussels Airlines would make 50M benefit in 2022 and 50M in 2023 and 50M in 2024 and 50M in 2025, shareholder Lufthansa is not allowed to cash in 1 EUR of that profit before Brussels Airlines has made 695M profit in total. Actually, with the loss of 50M for 1Q2022, the cost of this strike and the intrest on the Belgian corona loan, we're not tallking about 695M but rather 775M at the end of 2022. So at least for the next 15 years, Lufthansa shareholders won't see a penny Return-On-Investment.

With that in mind, one incident is enough for a repeat of the Fred Chaffart (RIP) scenario. A disaster, and then a massive strike by pilots. And the shareholder refusing the necessary cash injection.

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lumumba
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by lumumba »

I understand very well,the problem here is a management error 500 staff went away and they did not hire enough people to replace on time.
Workers have a family life etc...
I think you don't understand!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

fcw
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by fcw »

lumumba wrote: 23 Jun 2022, 10:03 I understand very well,the problem here is a management error 500 staff went away and they did not hire enough people to replace on time.
Workers have a family life etc...
I think you don't understand!
It’s not an error, it has been done deliberately! Many airlines/airports made a lot of employees redundant (and requested sacrifices from the remaining ones) with the idea of hiring them again, during the recovery, at lower terms and conditions. They completely overplayed their hand though as many of those who were forced to leave aviation found jobs with better pay and less unsocial working hours.

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b.lufthansa
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by b.lufthansa »

Union member Olivier Van Camp this morning said that he saw the worst management ever. In the past, he had talks with Davignon, Gustin and other CEO's but until now, he did not meet Peter Gerber, the lastest CEO, to discuss the current issues.

Lux_avi
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Lux_avi »

Passenger wrote: 22 Jun 2022, 23:34 You have no idea at all what "...a cumulated loss of 695.676.868 EUR on 31/12/2021..." means, do you? You think "cumulated loss" is just something for accountants and statisticians, don't you?

Let me explain it, related to Brussels Airlines and Lufthansa. Even if Brussels Airlines would make 50M benefit in 2022 and 50M in 2023 and 50M in 2024 and 50M in 2025, shareholder Lufthansa is not allowed to cash in 1 EUR of that profit before Brussels Airlines has made 695M profit in total. Actually, with the loss of 50M for 1Q2022, the cost of this strike and the intrest on the Belgian corona loan, we're not tallking about 695M but rather 775M at the end of 2022. So at least for the next 15 years, Lufthansa shareholders won't see a penny Return-On-Investment.

With that in mind, one incident is enough for a repeat of the Fred Chaffart (RIP) scenario. A disaster, and then a massive strike by pilots. And the shareholder refusing the necessary cash injection.
Yep. Glad they found the money for a beautiful and classy rebranding, though.

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Conti764
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Conti764 »

I understand the staff for striking, I understand the position SN is in.

Brussels Airlines has no future, unfortunately.

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lumumba
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by lumumba »

Conti764 wrote: 24 Jun 2022, 08:47 I understand the staff for striking, I understand the position SN is in.

Brussels Airlines has no future, unfortunately.
We have to admit that in 100 years civil aviation in Belgium they where only 2 years it was profitable!!!
Hasta la victoria siempre.

Pluto777
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Re: Strikes affecting Belgian airports in 2022

Post by Pluto777 »

The mercy shot for the bleeding bull

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