Boeing 747-8 news

[earthman]

Any project that you don't go bankrupt from is a success, right?

[RoMax]

Some more dates (some come from Boeing, some from "sources close to matter":

- Expected first delivery for B748F: 7 September
- First customer acceptance flight B748f: around 2 September
- RC502 (the first one to be delivered) is expected to make it's first flight on 27 August
- Cargolux will get a second B748F in September and Cathay also expects to take delivery of their first 2 in September

- Certification for the B787 expected on 26 August
- First delivery of the B787: between 22 and 30 September
- ZA101 will fly away for Japan two days after handover
- ZA101 first run it's engines on 18 August and will make its first flight on 1 September
- ANA will operate the first sheduled revenue flight on 1 November conecting Tokyo Haneda with Okayama and Hiroshima

[sn26567]

A first picture of the first commercial 747-8i (D-ABYA) in LH colours: http://twitpic.com/6fyttj

The Lufthansa website has also dedicated a page to its new bird, with a comparison between the 747-400 and the 747-8i: http://konzern.lufthansa.com/en/themen/ ... tflug.html

[OO-ITR]

Another setback for Boeing :

Cargolux has informed Boeing it will not take delivery of its first 747-8 freighter on Monday as planned, due to a contractual tussle, the airframer confirms.

source : flightglobal
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... tract.html

[RoMax]

Another setback for Boeing :

Cargolux has informed Boeing it will not take delivery of its first 747-8 freighter on Monday as planned, due to a contractual tussle, the airframer confirms.

source : flightglobal
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... tract.html

According to a source familiar with the situation the 748F delivery dispute with Cargolux is related to the delays of the Qatar Airways 787's.
Cargolux and Boeing previously agreed on the compensation for the missed specifications and the delays. But Qatar Airways sees the compensation for the 748F to Cargolux as a benchmark for the compensation they will get for the delayed 787.
On 9 September the acquisition of 35% of Cargolux by Qatar Airways was finished and during the first board meeting of Cargolux after the acquisition it was decided to cancel the delivery of the two first 748F's on 19 and 21 September.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... eries.html

If this is true, I think it's very sad that Qatar is using Cargolux and the 748F programm to get more compensation for their delayed 787's...

[andorra-airport]

Another setback for Boeing :

Cargolux has informed Boeing it will not take delivery of its first 747-8 freighter on Monday as planned, due to a contractual tussle, the airframer confirms.

"Fuel Burn Shortfall Behind 747-8 Delay"

Boeing, General Electric and Cargolux are in the midst of renegotiating the impact of a 2.7% fuel burn performance shortfall that unexpectedly prompted the cargo airline late Friday to suspend first delivery celebrations for the 747-8 Freighter planned...

GE is developing a performance improvement package (PIP) for the GEnx-2B engine powering the freighter, but this is yet to be developed and tested and is not scheduled to enter service until the third quarter 2013. Furthermore, GE and Boeing analysis suggests that even then it will account for only 1.6% of the shortfall, leaving an additional 1.1% still to be recovered.

It is thought Al Baker’s group insisted that Cargolux receive additional compensation for the performance shortfall below initial guarantees promised by Boeing and GE. Program sources say the “disagreement is over how much is owed them.”

Full article:

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/ ... /20/02.xml

[sn26567]

More trouble for the 747-8F? Atlas Air cancels three 747-8Fs on performance concerns.
http://bit.ly/oMaTTY

Source: Flightblogger

[OO-ITR]

Has the first 7-(l)8-7 been delivered by now?
And what about the 747-8F? What is all the commotion with Cargolux and Atlas Air? Apparantly these customers are not happy with the performance promised by Boeing...

[cnc]

should be this monday 26/09
about the 747 i'm wondering too.
anyone an idea on how the 748F does vs the 777F and the 744ERF?

[andorra-airport]

Has the first 7-(l)8-7 been delivered by now?
And what about the 747-8F? What is all the commotion with Cargolux and Atlas Air? Apparantly these customers are not happy with the performance promised by Boeing...

For the 787, this Monday. http://www.airlinereporter.com/tag/ja801a/.

For the 748, rumors go that the first aircraft might be delivered, Tuesday , 27 September. Cargolux’s 747-8F (LX-VCB) went on a customer test flight, meaning the airline’s pilots were on board....

The big deal with Cargolux is the amount of compensation they want for the greater fuel burn then expected, as mentioned before. But there is another issue, and that is Qatar. (They purchased a 35% stake in Cargolux). They want an additional compensation for delays to their Boeing 787, and are using this situation , to put a "benchmark" for that compensation (as mentioned before as well).

Not all customers are unhappy, Cathay Pacific is “satisfied”. Delivery in October.

[OO-ITR]

The big deal with Cargolux is the amount of compensation they want for the greater fuel burn then expected, as mentioned before. But there is another issue, and that is Qatar. (They purchased a 35% stake in Cargolux). They want an additional compensation for delays to their Boeing 787, and are using this situation , to put a "benchmark" for that compensation (as mentioned before as well).

Does Qatar also have a part in Atlas Air then? lol

[andorra-airport]

Does Qatar also have a part in Atlas Air then? lol

Ha, you never know. But yes, I forgot to mention them. As far as I know, the Atlas Air case has nothing to do with CargoLux. The three aircraft they cancelled are test aircraft, who are not so efficient as future 747-8F's.

Some rumours go that that is not the real reason, but the bad economy. Atlas could cancel those 3 without penalty...

[RoMax]

For the people that didn't knew it yet. Cargolux will take delivery of it's first B748F on 12 October. Altough this date is depending on the Cargolux board approval on 6 or 7 October.

Qatar Airways confirmed that they had a dispute with GE about the initial 2.7% fuel burn shortfall on the 748F's. GE and Boeing are working on an improvement package for the engines, but this is still two years away. Cargolux already had an agreement with GE and Boeing about compensation. But after the take over of 35% of Cargolux' shares was finalised, Qatar Airways made clear that they were not happy with the arrangement made by Cargolux. Qatar wanted to see more compensation from GE and/or Boeing.

Normally Cargolux will stay the launch customer of the aircraft. Closely followed by deliveries to Atlas Air (BA world Air cargo) and Cathay Pacific. Both will both get some (don't know exactly but I think something like 2 or 3 for each) 748F's in October.

[sn26567]

Korean Air confirms it has delayed its first 747-8F delivery, and is talking with Boeing about a rescheduled date.

Other bad news in perspective for Boeing?

On the other hand, Arik Air (which was in financial difficulties and had some of its aircraft seized) becomes the first African airline to order the 748i (2 aircraft). The order was already in the books, but attributed to an unidentified buyer (see Boeing press release: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=45884).

[RoMax]

Other bad news in perspective for Boeing?

Not only for Boeing. Also for GE (especially when talking about the 748 engines). Boeing was not able to meet the specifications it promised for the 748F, but a very big part of that is the result of the engines wich are performing worser than expected.

The cancelled delivery of Cargolux was not (only) because of Boeing, but because of GE. Cargolux had an agreement with Boeing wich was good enough according to Qatar, but Qatar was not happy with the agreement with GE as they are responsible for the biggest part of the higher fuel burn of the 748F.

The case of the 787 is different. The aircraft is just way too heavy and the early engines (of both RR en GE) are burning more fuel than planned.

Many airlines do not want the earliest 787's and 748's or want them later (so that they can be improved more before delivery and not while they are already in service)... I really hope it will be better with the 789, the 737MAX (and the possible 787-10, 777-8X/-9X)...

[tsv]

Korean Air confirms it has delayed its first 747-8F delivery, and is talking with Boeing about a rescheduled date.

Other bad news in perspective for Boeing?

On the other hand, Arik Air (which was in financial difficulties and had some of its aircraft seized) becomes the first African airline to order the 748i (2 aircraft). The order was already in the books, but attributed to an unidentified buyer (see Boeing press release: viewtopic.php?f=31&t=45884).

I would say certainly more bad news for Boeing with respect to the KE order. KE will undoubtedly want compensation, especially after Cargo Lux has (apparently) got some. So the sale price will be less and the delivery probably delayed.

I would say that the Arik Air order is also bad news in the sense that the order "already in the books" has turned out to be highly dubious. If they can't afford to fly the A/C they already have how long will Boeing have to wait for payment? To even hold talks with the likes of Arik Air for the purchase of such a large (and probably not needed A/C) smacks of desparation by Boeing IMO.

[RoMax]

I would say certainly more bad news for Boeing with respect to the KE order. KE will undoubtedly want compensation, especially after Cargo Lux has (apparently) got some. So the sale price will be less and the delivery probably delayed.

All airlines get compensation from both Boeing and GE and all airlines get an arrangement for upgrades after delivery (both by Boeing and GE). Qatar was just not happy with the arrangement Cargolux had with Boeing and especially with GE about the engines.
I'm sure KE already has quite some compensation. A delayed delivery may mean that KE wants that some upgrades are incorporated before delivery and not after delivery (as most of the upgrades that will come in the comming months/years for the 748F can be incorporated in the aircraft that are already delivered). Same with Atlas Air. The 3 748F that they will get this year were supposed to be delivered in 2012, the 3 that were originally planned for this year are shuffled back to 2012. The only reason for that is that these 3 that were sheduled for 2012 are lighter and with more upgrades already installed. On the 3 that were originally planned for this year need more rework to get them at the same level. A part of that rework/upgrades was planned after delivery. The partly cancellation of the Atlas Air order is of course another story...

Anyway, both the 748 and the 787 missed their planned specifications. And all airlines will get compensation for the delays and the missed specifications. And that's bad news for Boeing of course...

[RoMax]

Cargolux, Boeing and GE resolved the problems and delivery of the first 748F will be today, with the second one to be delivered tomorrow (both to Cargolux).

And the first one will go right into service as he will fly home trough Sea-Tac Airport (Seattle-Tacoma Airport) to pick up a load of cargo according to Boeing.

http://www.cargolux.com/Press/PressRele ... p?nid=300#

But no big media events this time. Both Cargolux and Boeing planned big events in September, but that resulted in a disaster. Boeing said local media could see the first aircraft leaving Everett (on to Sea-Tac Airport to pick up some cargo and then fly home) but nothing else.

[sn26567]

Picture of the departure from the Boeing plant at Everett with Cargolux pilots:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/theboeingc ... 238731172/

[RoMax]

Meanwhile the second 748F is delivered to Cargolux and according to several sources the second 787 for ANA is delivered, delivery flight was on 15 October.

Other news is that the first 787 for United left the final assembly line, it's sheduled to be delivered to UA after July 1 2012. Also, United now expects 5 787's in 2012 and not 6. UA declined to comment on the reason for this.