Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013

[sn26567]

Brussels Airport is warning that snow might slow down operations in the morning of 15 January and advises passengers to come very early, whether it is by car or public transportation because of the risk of congestion.

I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.

[airazurxtror]

Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...

[jan_olieslagers]

Yes I wondered the same. Or would this be that most horrible conspiracy between MOL and the NIMBY's to disrupt EBBR traffic as much as possible? Why is there no similar warnings for the other Belgian airports? How many flights has Ryanair cancelled yet?

[cathay belgium]

Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
Strange that last year in KUN we landed on a snow ice skating runway without any assle and walked to the terminal in two inches of white and red ,of deicing.snow!
Belgium is alAys more trouble then other real northern countries,..
But maybe thats just Belgium
Greetz CXB

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
Strange that last year in KUN we landed on a snow ice skating runway without any assle and walked to the terminal in two inches of white and red ,of deicing.snow!
Belgium is alAys more trouble then other real northern countries,..
But maybe thats just Belgium
Greetz CXB

You might be very proud about Belgium if you could see how we use to deal wich such situation in France... awful...

[Bralo20]

Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...

Well, apparently it's snowing heavy in the West-Flanders area with allready snow several centimeters high and due the heavy winds up to 10cm in some places.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the meteorologists minimised it this time and that the result will be the opposit, much more snow then predicted...

But we'll have to wait I guess, here it's not snowing at this moment.

[RoMax]

I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.

Not only Brussels, numerous flights of KLM Cityhopper and KLM intra-EU flights are cancelled.

These aren't decision they take without thinking. If meteo proves to be wrong, KLM (and their passengers in special) will not be happy, but when meteo is right, KLM will be able to restart full operations without delays or cancellations much faster than in the case they try to operate every single flight (with many delays as a result). That takes days to recover after the weather problems are already gone.

Last time (when there was so much critic at SN about their cancelations) KLM had tens of cancelled flights on Friday (planned before the snow was actually comming down). But Saterday, they were back on full power by 12am, if they didn't cancell that many flights on Friday, the delays would have been ongoing untill Saterday evening or even Sunday.
Of course SN's network isn't as extreme and well developed as that of KLM, but some things could be applied to SN (as it's a 'network carrier' with it's hub in BRU) as well.

[sn26567]

Meanwhile, Warsaw airport just announces: "10 cm of snow at Chopin Airport and we keep on running... "

[RoMax]

Meanwhile, Warsaw airport just announces: "10 cm of snow at Chopin Airport and we keep on running... "

But of course there's a difference between 'keep on running' and having no delays and/or cancelled flights. I believe there aren't that many occasions when BRU or AMS were actually closed for a 'long' period because of the snow, seriously reduced capacity on the other hand.
But of course I don't doubt about the fact that they'll be able to handle such a situation in WAW MUCH better than in Belgium, The Netherlands, UK, France (parts of France). There are very good reasons for that.

[KriVa]

I can't wait for the posts stating BRU needs to buy more and better equipment to deal with snow and ice...

[airazurxtror]

Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..

Hi Lex !
I'm off to BUD and also hoping for the best ...
We'll see how it turns out !
(stll awaiting the first snowflakes at Brussels as of now)

[cnc]

does anyone know how much deicing trucks CRL has?

[jan_olieslagers]

According to AIP (official and public information!)
4 De-icing facilities 2 de-icers type 2
but doubtlessly you had already found that, and were only wondering like myself what is meant by a type 2 deicer?

PS as of 20:20 UTC, first very fine melting snow coming down at 4:21 longitude, slightly north of Brussels.

[RCMike]

From CFMU...

Overnight, this snow front moves through Belgium with light to moderate snow forecast for EBBR. Most of the moderate snow will be from 23:00 until 01:00 UTC with light snow (valid between 01:00 and 18:00 UTC on Wednesday 16/01/13). There is a chance for single runway ops in the early morning.

[SNam]

and were only wondering like myself what is meant by a type 2 deicer?

For what it is worth:

As far as i know there are 3 types of deicing fluids and the type depends on the mix of the fluid they used.
Depending the type pilots know how much time they have to taxi and take off before they need to redo the deicing.
But maybe somebody can correct me and give some additional info.

Regards,
Sam

[cnc]

there are 4 types actually.
i still don't know exactly how the CRL deicing is.

According to AIP (official and public information!)
4 De-icing facilities 2 de-icers type 2

de-icing facilities? like the deicing platform at BRU?
2 de-icers type 2? meaning they have 2 deicing trucks filled with fluid type 2?

[sn26567]

TP618 flight from LIS to BRU diverted!

[quixoticguide]

I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.

Not only Brussels, numerous flights of KLM Cityhopper and KLM intra-EU flights are cancelled.

These aren't decision they take without thinking. If meteo proves to be wrong, KLM (and their passengers in special) will not be happy, but when meteo is right, KLM will be able to restart full operations without delays or cancellations much faster than in the case they try to operate every single flight (with many delays as a result). That takes days to recover after the weather problems are already gone.

Last time (when there was so much critic at SN about their cancelations) KLM had tens of cancelled flights on Friday (planned before the snow was actually comming down). But Saterday, they were back on full power by 12am, if they didn't cancell that many flights on Friday, the delays would have been ongoing untill Saterday evening or even Sunday.
Of course SN's network isn't as extreme and well developed as that of KLM, but some things could be applied to SN (as it's a 'network carrier' with it's hub in BRU) as well.

Due to snow showers on 15 January 2013, the runway capacity at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport has been reduced. This means that some of our flights have been delayed or cancelled.
---> reduced runway capacity is the main reason for the cancellations?

We apologize for the inconvenience, caused by circumstances beyond our control.

The following flights are cancelled for 15 January 2013:

o KL1790 – Munich-Amsterdam
o KL1900 – Hanover-Amsterdam
o KL1530 – Teesside-Amsterdam
o KL1880 – Nuremburg-Amsterdam
o KL1750 – Bremen-Amsterdam
o KL1793 – Amsterdam-Munich
o KL1903 – Amsterdam-Hanover
o KL1533 – Amsterdam-Teesside
o KL1883 – Amsterdam-Nuremburg
o KL1753 – Amsterdam-Bremen
o KL1721/KL1722 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1821/KL1822 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1229/KL1230 – Amsterdam-Paris (CDG) v.v.
o KL1777/KL1778 – Amsterdam-Hamburg v.v.
o KL0957/KL0958 – Amsterdam-Newcastle v.v.
o KL1107/KL1108 – Amsterdam-Stockholm v.v.
o KL1073/KL1074 – Amsterdam-Manchester v.v.
o KL1007/KL1008 – Amsterdam-London (LHR) v.v.
o KL1619/KL1620 – Amsterdam-Milan v.v.
o KL1723-KL1724 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1059/KL1060 – Amsterdam-Cardiff v.v.
o KL1199/KL1200 – Amsterdam-Stavanger v.v
o KL1413/KL1414 – Amsterdam-Lyon v.v.
o KL1927/KL1928 – Amsterdam-Geneva v.v.
o KL1279/KL1280 – Amsterdam-Edinburgh v.v.
o KL1155/KL1156 – Amsterdam-Gothenburg v.v.
o KL1807/KL1808 – Amsterdam-Cologne v.v.f
o KL1443/KL1444 – Amsterdam-Aberdeen v.vf.
o KL1127/KL1128 – Amsterdam-Copenhagen v.v.f
o KL1855/KL1856 – Amsterdam-Dusseldorf v.v.
o KL1671/KL1672 – Amsterdam-Barcelona v.v.
o KL1187/KL1188 – Amsterdam-Bergen v.v.
o KL1125/KL1126 – Amsterdam-Copenhagen v.v.
o KL1791/KL1792 – Amsterdam- Munich v.v.
o KL1421/KL1422 – Amsterdam- Birmingham v.v.
o KL1351/KL1352 – Amsterdam- Praag v.v.
o KL1049/KL1050 – Amsterdam- Bristol v.v.

[RoMax]

Due to snow showers on 15 January 2013, the runway capacity at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport has been reduced. This means that some of our flights have been delayed or cancelled.
---> reduced runway capacity is the main reason for the cancellations?

It's part of the whole reason. The runway capacity will be reduced indeed, but KLM can still decide not to cancell flights. In the case the weather proves to be rather ok, that'll prove to be the better decision, if the weather is bad, they are screwed. It'll result in heavy delays and aircraft that may be able to depart may get stuck at other airports for hours if it proves they can't return to AMS without huge delays due to a congested airspace around AMS and possibly diverting flights.

In any case, for a network carrier like KLM it's the safest guess to cancel flights if the airport/ATC decides to reduce runway capacity. If you don't anticipate enough on that decision, you'll get in trouble. If the weather shows rather ok tomorrow, pax will be complaining, very angry, but the risk is too big.

But of course, in a public statement toward their passengers they are not going to do that whole story, most pax wouldn't understand anyway.

[Acid-drop]

Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...

They sold again the wolf story i'm affraid...
That makes more advertising revenue for the press of course.