Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
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Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Brussels Airport is warning that snow might slow down operations in the morning of 15 January and advises passengers to come very early, whether it is by car or public transportation because of the risk of congestion.
I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.
I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Yes I wondered the same. Or would this be that most horrible conspiracy between MOL and the NIMBY's to disrupt EBBR traffic as much as possible? Why is there no similar warnings for the other Belgian airports? How many flights has Ryanair cancelled yet?
- cathay belgium
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
Strange that last year in KUN we landed on a snow ice skating runway without any assle and walked to the terminal in two inches of white and red ,of deicing.snow!
Belgium is alAys more trouble then other real northern countries,..
But maybe thats just Belgium![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Greetz CXB
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
Strange that last year in KUN we landed on a snow ice skating runway without any assle and walked to the terminal in two inches of white and red ,of deicing.snow!
Belgium is alAys more trouble then other real northern countries,..
But maybe thats just Belgium
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
Greetz CXB
New types flown 2022.. A339
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
You might be very proud about Belgium if you could see how we use to deal wich such situation in France... awful...cathay belgium wrote:Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
Strange that last year in KUN we landed on a snow ice skating runway without any assle and walked to the terminal in two inches of white and red ,of deicing.snow!
Belgium is alAys more trouble then other real northern countries,..
But maybe thats just Belgium
Greetz CXB
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Well, apparently it's snowing heavy in the West-Flanders area with allready snow several centimeters high and due the heavy winds up to 10cm in some places.airazurxtror wrote:Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...
Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the meteorologists minimised it this time and that the result will be the opposit, much more snow then predicted...
But we'll have to wait I guess, here it's not snowing at this moment.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Not only Brussels, numerous flights of KLM Cityhopper and KLM intra-EU flights are cancelled.sn26567 wrote:
I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.
These aren't decision they take without thinking. If meteo proves to be wrong, KLM (and their passengers in special) will not be happy, but when meteo is right, KLM will be able to restart full operations without delays or cancellations much faster than in the case they try to operate every single flight (with many delays as a result). That takes days to recover after the weather problems are already gone.
Last time (when there was so much critic at SN about their cancelations) KLM had tens of cancelled flights on Friday (planned before the snow was actually comming down). But Saterday, they were back on full power by 12am, if they didn't cancell that many flights on Friday, the delays would have been ongoing untill Saterday evening or even Sunday.
Of course SN's network isn't as extreme and well developed as that of KLM, but some things could be applied to SN (as it's a 'network carrier' with it's hub in BRU) as well.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Meanwhile, Warsaw airport just announces: "10 cm of snow at Chopin Airport and we keep on running...
"
![Smile :-)](./images/smilies/icon_e_smile.gif)
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
But of course there's a difference between 'keep on running' and having no delays and/or cancelled flights. I believe there aren't that many occasions when BRU or AMS were actually closed for a 'long' period because of the snow, seriously reduced capacity on the other hand.sn26567 wrote:Meanwhile, Warsaw airport just announces: "10 cm of snow at Chopin Airport and we keep on running..."
But of course I don't doubt about the fact that they'll be able to handle such a situation in WAW MUCH better than in Belgium, The Netherlands, UK, France (parts of France). There are very good reasons for that.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
I can't wait for the posts stating BRU needs to buy more and better equipment to deal with snow and ice...
Thomas
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
Hi Lex !cathay belgium wrote:Haha,
Hope FR don't cancel too much as I'm off to STN tomorrowmorning,..
I'm off to BUD and also hoping for the best ...
We'll see how it turns out !
(stll awaiting the first snowflakes at Brussels as of now)
IF IT AIN'T BOEING, I'M NOT GOING.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
does anyone know how much deicing trucks CRL has?
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
According to AIP (official and public information!)
4 De-icing facilities 2 de-icers type 2
but doubtlessly you had already found that, and were only wondering like myself what is meant by a type 2 deicer?
PS as of 20:20 UTC, first very fine melting snow coming down at 4:21 longitude, slightly north of Brussels.
4 De-icing facilities 2 de-icers type 2
but doubtlessly you had already found that, and were only wondering like myself what is meant by a type 2 deicer?
PS as of 20:20 UTC, first very fine melting snow coming down at 4:21 longitude, slightly north of Brussels.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
From CFMU...
Overnight, this snow front moves through Belgium with light to moderate snow forecast for EBBR. Most of the moderate snow will be from 23:00 until 01:00 UTC with light snow (valid between 01:00 and 18:00 UTC on Wednesday 16/01/13). There is a chance for single runway ops in the early morning.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
For what it is worth:jan_olieslagers wrote:and were only wondering like myself what is meant by a type 2 deicer?
As far as i know there are 3 types of deicing fluids and the type depends on the mix of the fluid they used.
Depending the type pilots know how much time they have to taxi and take off before they need to redo the deicing.
But maybe somebody can correct me and give some additional info.
Regards,
Sam
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
there are 4 types actually.
i still don't know exactly how the CRL deicing is.
2 de-icers type 2? meaning they have 2 deicing trucks filled with fluid type 2?
i still don't know exactly how the CRL deicing is.
de-icing facilities? like the deicing platform at BRU?jan_olieslagers wrote:According to AIP (official and public information!)
4 De-icing facilities 2 de-icers type 2
2 de-icers type 2? meaning they have 2 deicing trucks filled with fluid type 2?
- quixoticguide
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Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
RoMax wrote:Not only Brussels, numerous flights of KLM Cityhopper and KLM intra-EU flights are cancelled.sn26567 wrote:
I see also that KLM has already cancelled the first two incoming flights from AMS on 15 Jan. Of course, they have the alternative of the train to/from Schiphol, but I'm afraid that train traffic might also be slowed down.
These aren't decision they take without thinking. If meteo proves to be wrong, KLM (and their passengers in special) will not be happy, but when meteo is right, KLM will be able to restart full operations without delays or cancellations much faster than in the case they try to operate every single flight (with many delays as a result). That takes days to recover after the weather problems are already gone.
Last time (when there was so much critic at SN about their cancelations) KLM had tens of cancelled flights on Friday (planned before the snow was actually comming down). But Saterday, they were back on full power by 12am, if they didn't cancell that many flights on Friday, the delays would have been ongoing untill Saterday evening or even Sunday.
Of course SN's network isn't as extreme and well developed as that of KLM, but some things could be applied to SN (as it's a 'network carrier' with it's hub in BRU) as well.
Due to snow showers on 15 January 2013, the runway capacity at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport has been reduced. This means that some of our flights have been delayed or cancelled.
---> reduced runway capacity is the main reason for the cancellations?
We apologize for the inconvenience, caused by circumstances beyond our control.
The following flights are cancelled for 15 January 2013:
o KL1790 – Munich-Amsterdam
o KL1900 – Hanover-Amsterdam
o KL1530 – Teesside-Amsterdam
o KL1880 – Nuremburg-Amsterdam
o KL1750 – Bremen-Amsterdam
o KL1793 – Amsterdam-Munich
o KL1903 – Amsterdam-Hanover
o KL1533 – Amsterdam-Teesside
o KL1883 – Amsterdam-Nuremburg
o KL1753 – Amsterdam-Bremen
o KL1721/KL1722 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1821/KL1822 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1229/KL1230 – Amsterdam-Paris (CDG) v.v.
o KL1777/KL1778 – Amsterdam-Hamburg v.v.
o KL0957/KL0958 – Amsterdam-Newcastle v.v.
o KL1107/KL1108 – Amsterdam-Stockholm v.v.
o KL1073/KL1074 – Amsterdam-Manchester v.v.
o KL1007/KL1008 – Amsterdam-London (LHR) v.v.
o KL1619/KL1620 – Amsterdam-Milan v.v.
o KL1723-KL1724 – Amsterdam-Brussels v.v.
o KL1059/KL1060 – Amsterdam-Cardiff v.v.
o KL1199/KL1200 – Amsterdam-Stavanger v.v
o KL1413/KL1414 – Amsterdam-Lyon v.v.
o KL1927/KL1928 – Amsterdam-Geneva v.v.
o KL1279/KL1280 – Amsterdam-Edinburgh v.v.
o KL1155/KL1156 – Amsterdam-Gothenburg v.v.
o KL1807/KL1808 – Amsterdam-Cologne v.v.f
o KL1443/KL1444 – Amsterdam-Aberdeen v.vf.
o KL1127/KL1128 – Amsterdam-Copenhagen v.v.f
o KL1855/KL1856 – Amsterdam-Dusseldorf v.v.
o KL1671/KL1672 – Amsterdam-Barcelona v.v.
o KL1187/KL1188 – Amsterdam-Bergen v.v.
o KL1125/KL1126 – Amsterdam-Copenhagen v.v.
o KL1791/KL1792 – Amsterdam- Munich v.v.
o KL1421/KL1422 – Amsterdam- Birmingham v.v.
o KL1351/KL1352 – Amsterdam- Praag v.v.
o KL1049/KL1050 – Amsterdam- Bristol v.v.
Visit my flights on: http://www.quixoticguide.com
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
It's part of the whole reason. The runway capacity will be reduced indeed, but KLM can still decide not to cancell flights. In the case the weather proves to be rather ok, that'll prove to be the better decision, if the weather is bad, they are screwed. It'll result in heavy delays and aircraft that may be able to depart may get stuck at other airports for hours if it proves they can't return to AMS without huge delays due to a congested airspace around AMS and possibly diverting flights.quixoticguide wrote: Due to snow showers on 15 January 2013, the runway capacity at Amsterdam Schiphol Airport has been reduced. This means that some of our flights have been delayed or cancelled.
---> reduced runway capacity is the main reason for the cancellations?
In any case, for a network carrier like KLM it's the safest guess to cancel flights if the airport/ATC decides to reduce runway capacity. If you don't anticipate enough on that decision, you'll get in trouble. If the weather shows rather ok tomorrow, pax will be complaining, very angry, but the risk is too big.
But of course, in a public statement toward their passengers they are not going to do that whole story, most pax wouldn't understand anyway.
Re: Snow in BRU night 14-15/01/2013
They sold again the wolf story i'm affraid...airazurxtror wrote:Will the meteo forecasts be more accurate than last time ?
They had cried wolf for not much actually.
Let's wait and see ...
That makes more advertising revenue for the press of course.
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