Daydreaming about an Airbus A321 for Brussels Airlines

[OO-ITR]

Hi all
Just a hypothetical question and maybe I'm just daydreaming, given SN's current financial situation.

Given the fact that business passengers aren't very pleased with the current cabin layout for TLV, why not using A321 to fly to TLV (and maybe DME)?
On this A321, a few business seats could be installed (like the seats on the OO-LTM). Maybe around 16 to 20 seats. And for eco, the usual Recaro slim seat...

I know, I'm dreaming but maybe an idea for the future. LH and LX are using widebodies on this route. It can be a solution for Sn not having to use widebodies on this route as they can use their widebodies on other destinations.
Does anyone know if other European carriers use widebodies on the TVL route?

What are your thoughts/ideas on this?

Some of the stored A321 with the right engines (I think) :
http://www.planespotters.net/Production ... Berlin.php
http://www.planespotters.net/Production ... rlines.php

[Air Key West]

I think it is a very good suggestion. The A321 with dedicated Business class seats could fly at night (as operated at present) to TLV, and, with minor flight time adjustments (slots permitting), it could fly to MOW during the day.
Now, there is also the night flight to MOW (on the same route you should endeavour to offer the same product). There comes in a second A321 which, in turn, could, for instance operate a daytime return flight to BEY.

[RoMax]

I think 2 (maybe 3) A321's could fit SN's fleet. But I think they will, for now, focus on the A320 and A319. First replace all 737 (and RJ85), reorganise the short/mid haul network, increase long haul, ... And when their network is 'ok' they may look at the A321. But I don't think that will happen before 2013-2014.

[Air Key West]

Agreed. It cannot, of course, be done overnight. But b.air should have a medium term vision, too. But they seem to have gotten out of the state of lethargy into which they had sunk for a year or two, by replacing progressively the B737s and Avrojets and by acquiring additional long haul aircraft. So, there's hope.

[jumpjet]

In response to your question - British Airways use 2 wide bodies a day (one B767 at night and one B777 in the morning) on the Heathrow to Tel Aviv route.

Interestingly British Airways will also be introducing a B747 on one of their three daily Moscow runs from the summer 2012 season, their shortest 747 route I think.

Maybe this might influence your thinking on whether a A321 with a suitable layout would be sensible for the Brussels TLV/MOW routes.

Incidentally British Midland have a few A321s configured with a 'proper' business class section they use for mid-range journies [e.g Cairo] - maybe their current owners could divert one or two to Brussels Airlines before BMI leaves the lufthansa group as I dont think that style of configuration would fit with the British Airways [assuming the regulators don't scupper the sale deal] scheme of things.

[sn26567]

Remember that in the past Brussels Airlines has already used the A333 on the TLV route as well.

[tolipanebas]

I think it is not very likely, for the simple reason it would create a very small odd sub-fleet of just 1 (or 2) planes at best: not really very flexible, is it?

Better to use an A330 on the route then: TLV is known to be really easy to stimulate and given SN now have the A332 in the fleet, it would make more sense to use that plane if demand ever justifies increasing capacity to TLV. The presence of JFK in their network will certainly help them achieve that point one day, although they'd probably need an evening flight to NYC too in order to guarantee connectivity in both directions then.

[sn26567]

Royal Air Maroc is getting rid of its 4 Airbus A321 aircraft. An opportunity?

[BrightCedars]

I think it's a good idea but I see several negative points as to the operation of a more conventional business product (it doesn't have to be on the bigger A321).

TLV is a very price sensitive market. Sabena used to operate it on short haul aircraft and even let Sobelair's infamous B767 (a charter product) do the runs just making sure there was an empty next seat in business. On other routes, well there are so few! If SN were to start a bunch of 3-5 hour flights then maybe, but I doubt.

Operating to BEY? Let's not forget there is now fierce competition on the route. ME has a very good product (real wide-body C seats and even widescreen AVOD in Y) and a very good following in the market, the market is more Lebanon driven than Belgium driven to begin with. Not to mention their cost basis is far below what SN can ever dream of so any competition will see SN bleeding chips.

I think eventually, if TLV or MOW warranted a better product, more frequency would be a better hit, or the use of a larger aircraft altogether as part of a broader, less stretched, (i.e. more sustainable) long haul program.

SN is planning to open NY next Summer, but to blend their African connections the TLV run might give some help, in this case again you'd rather need 2 flights with a smaller jet allowing to connect properly instead of a single flight with a larger jet, but I don't think they're after this highly competitive city pair anyway.

[Air Key West]

I still think that the idea of one or two A321s with dedicated business class seats is a good one, especially since the introduction of the new slim seats which feel more like wooden chairs with thin cushions than regular airline seats. Comfort in the new A319/A320 cabins is totally unacceptable in business class, except perhaps for very short flights, but certainly unacceptable for longer flights, in particular MOW and TLV (and similar destinations which might be added in the future).

I cannot really agree with sending A330s to TLV (be it on a regular or an ad hoc basis), since these aircraft are really needed now for the expansion of long haul operations. IMO it could only be considered if one day b.air has many long haul aircraft, but we'll still have to wait a while for that.

SN could start with one A321 with a dedicated C cabin to fly to TLV and MOW. Slots permitting, by reorganising the flight schedules a little, this should be possible. For instance, the flight could leave for MOW at 1000 hours to be back in BRU at 1805 hours and leave for TLV at 2120 hours to be back in BRU at 0730 hours (I repeat : slots permitting).

A second A321 could operate the night flight to MOW and if traffic rights permit and b.air identifies an adequate demand, the night flight frequency could perhaps go up to 5 o 6 weekly (leaving BRU at 2220, back at 0625) + a daytime flight either to TLV or BEY (or does anyone have another suggestion ?) leaving around 9 am to be back at around 7 pm.

Those two aircraft would operate to these destinations only. If the second aircraft only flies five or six days per week, I assume a rotation between both planes should make it possible to do the necessary maintenance.

Again, I would not have suggested a dedicated C cabin for longer medium haul operations, if the new cabin and seats had been acceptable for C class, but they are not (inadequate comfort and seat pitch).