Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[Boeing767copilot]

Next year, a 10th A330 and an additional A320 will be added to the SN fleet.

[crew1990]

Has it be confirm somewhere? No that I don't believe you but I can't see any confirmation anywhere, no even on internal chanel. If so it's the case, it's definitely not the policy to annonce it as it has not be publicaly announce by SN.

[lumumba]

Has it be confirm somewhere? No that I don't believe you but I can't see any confirmation anywhere, no even on internal chanel. If so it's the case, it's definitely not the policy to annonce it as it has not be publicaly announce by SN.

That's why you have forums....

[DannyVDB]

Next year, a 10th A330 and an additional A320 will be added to the SN fleet.

Would the A320 be a NEO and replace yet another A319?

Would also be interesting to see to which destination(s) the 10th A330 would go: additional flights to Montreal? New African destinations? More frequencies to existing African destinations?

On a side-note, when I returned from Huntsville 10 days ago (the rocket city) I was on SN via Washington and it was completely full - maybe 2 seats left in premium economy - where I was (also when going - in business - there were only 4 seats left in business, could not see economy) ...

Cheers,
Danny

[crew1990]

For next year there is 2 NEO foreseen to replace 2 A319, the rest is just expansion, but apart from the 2 320neo joining in 2024, nothing as been confirmed so far...

About the next A330 if it comes, it should be to expand in Africa, expansion in North America will be with United or Air Canada

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

Just a question. Would you see SN having a A321 sub-fleet? I see it useful for destinations such as Tel Aviv, Madrid, Malaga, Athens ...
I think on some of these routes frequency is less important or would bring too much capacity, or a combination might be more logic

Also Tenerife, Lisbon come to my mind ...

I assume 3 to 5 would be more than enough.

Any thoughts

Cheers,
Danny

[crew1990]

Even if I could see an opportunity as well, I do not think this is the right moment as SN is busy with a rollover in the fleet, getting rid of the A319 in favour of A320neo. A319 require 3 CCM (2 CCM and 1 purser) while A320neo's requires 4 (3+1). This is quite a big expansion in term of workforce given the fact that on top of that, the fleet will also expand on both long and short haul fleet in therm of number of aircraft.

Appart from the workforce, going from A319 to A320neo is also a big upgrade in seating capacity, A319 are fitted with 141 seat while A320 fit 180 seat (more than 25% capacity)

In my opinion, A321 could be very usefull on some routes but not sure that the increase of revenue would compensate the increase of complexity in term of maintenance and operation.

Let's first get the A319's out first, it will already be a good step.

[Conti764]

Even if I could see an opportunity as well, I do not think this is the right moment as SN is busy with a rollover in the fleet, getting rid of the A319 in favour of A320neo. A319 require 3 CCM (2 CCM and 1 purser) while A320neo's requires 4 (3+1). This is quite a big expansion in term of workforce given the fact that on top of that, the fleet will also expand on both long and short haul fleet in therm of number of aircraft.

Appart from the workforce, going from A319 to A320neo is also a big upgrade in seating capacity, A319 are fitted with 141 seat while A320 fit 180 seat (more than 25% capacity)

In my opinion, A321 could be very usefull on some routes but not sure that the increase of revenue would compensate the increase of complexity in term of maintenance and operation.

Let's first get the A319's out first, it will already be a good step.

The A321neo might be a good option for a daily combo longhaul/shorthaul in the future.

[crew1990]

It's not a secret that A321neo for long haul has been a business case for a while, but this business case has been archived. There will be only wide body for long haul ops, for operation, comfort and cargo purpose.

[sn26567]

It's not a secret that A321neo for long haul has been a business case for a while, but this business case has been archived. There will be only wide body for long haul ops, for operation, comfort and cargo purpose.

A mistake IMHO. Airlines with the same size as SN have been buying large numbers of A321LR: Aer Lingus and TAP Air Portugal some in mind, but there are certainly many others. They could open some routes to North America (Boston being the most obvious) and increase frequencies on some African routes. A few years ago, when Christina Foerster was CEO, I asked her the question and she replied the A321LR could be an option for the fleet expansion.

As for the A321neo, may I remind you that Sabena has three A321s in its fleet and I remember flying on one of them to Edinburgh (surprise?). Some busy routes would certainly benefit from such an aircraft. Yes, additional cabin crew would be needed, but between ordering the aircraft and entering it into service, there are many months, enough to hire and educate the many crew members that will be needed.

[crew1990]

A few years ago, when Christina Foerster was CEO, I asked her the question and she replied the A321LR could be an option for the fleet expansion.

Yes, a few years ago it was an option indeed, but as I just said this business case is now closed, as insider we also have regurlarly at internal meeting the possibility to ask question to our CEO,CFO etc and the question has been asked recently, this was the answer. Don't shout the messenger.

Yes, additional cabin crew would be needed, but between ordering the aircraft and entering it into service, there are many months, enough to hire and educate the many crew members that will be needed.

The problem here is not the training, the major problem is to find enough of them meeting the requirement, like in any business Brussels Airlines is limited to the workforce market. Keeping a steady growth is the best way for now.

As for the A321neo, may I remind you that Sabena has three A321s in its fleet and I remember flying on one of them to Edinburgh (surprise?).

I'm not saying that there is no room for A321, I do hope as well that some day we will have some. I'm just saying that right now, there are other priority for the moment.

[fcw]

The A321neo might be a good option for a daily combo longhaul/shorthaul in the future.

You need an A321LR for long haul, with it’s 170-ish seats a guaranteed loss making aircraft on SN’s short-haul network.

[convair]

Some SN's sister companies, like Swiss and Austria have a (relatively) small fleet of A321s and/or A321s Neo they use on s/h and m/h destinations.
I'm not saying that this in itself would justify SN acquiring some as well, but I wonder how they (the sisters) justify the use of that type.
I'm not in favour of the type for l/h though, for reasons given above (image and cargo) but maybe the type could be suitable for some holiday and high density destinations.

[fcw]

Some SN's sister companies, like Swiss and Austria have a (relatively) small fleet of A321s and/or A321s Neo they use on s/h and m/h destinations.
I'm not saying that this in itself would justify SN acquiring some as well, but I wonder how they (the sisters) justify the use of that type.
I'm not in favour of the type for l/h though, for reasons given above (image and cargo) but maybe the type could be suitable for some holiday and high density destinations.

You are mixing up the different subtypes: NEO is not the same as LR!

[Conti764]

The A321neo might be a good option for a daily combo longhaul/shorthaul in the future.

You need an A321LR for long haul, with it’s 170-ish seats a guaranteed loss making aircraft on SN’s short-haul network.

Fair enough, just long haul then

[convair]

Some SN's sister companies, like Swiss and Austria have a (relatively) small fleet of A321s and/or A321s Neo they use on s/h and m/h destinations.
I'm not saying that this in itself would justify SN acquiring some as well, but I wonder how they (the sisters) justify the use of that type.
I'm not in favour of the type for l/h though, for reasons given above (image and cargo) but maybe the type could be suitable for some holiday and high density destinations.

You are mixing up the different subtypes: NEO is not the same as LR!

Yes, I know, I was only considering s/h and m/h. I'm not in favour of narrow bodies for l/h, hence I did not consider LR.

[Airbus2016]

Hi all,

With the delivery of the NEO’s, Is there already any news about which a319’s will leave the fleet?

[crew1990]

In the meantime we got more info on the neo. Due to delay at the airbus factory and their impressive backlog. The arrival of OO-SBA should be around 26-27 september. No dealy foreseen for the begining of the ops wich still planed in October (from the winter season I guess).

[longwings]

I'm not saying that this in itself would justify SN acquiring some as well, but I wonder how they (the sisters) justify the use of that type.

If SN is reportedly having difficulties finding qualified cabin crews to staff the A320, an A321 will only compound the issue as it is one more crew member above the A320.
You wrote it yourself, you can't compare one airline's fleet to another. Hopefully Swissair and Austrian are able to operate them profitably, and Brussels has decided they can't. That's all there is to conclude without intimate knowledge of costs and revenue at all three airlines.

[convair]

I'm not saying that this in itself would justify SN acquiring some as well, but I wonder how they (the sisters) justify the use of that type.

If SN is reportedly having difficulties finding qualified cabin crews to staff the A320, an A321 will only compound the issue as it is one more crew member above the A320.
You wrote it yourself, you can't compare one airline's fleet to another. Hopefully Swissair and Austrian are able to operate them profitably, and Brussels has decided they can't. That's all there is to conclude without intimate knowledge of costs and revenue at all three airlines.

That seems logical; thanks for your reply.