KLM just announced plans to buy replacements amongst other yhings its assortment of 744 and 744 Combi's.
Something to discuss perhaps, but it is well known that KLM have a love affair with the combi concept as it suits much of their network.
If memory serves me correctly, there is now an issue with the combi layout, concerning crash worthiness due to the bulkhead between the passengers and the freight areas.
Just a thought, but if there is enough of a freight demand, the A380 could be a magnificent combi with passengers on the upper deck and a strengthened main deck for freight, and probably toilets, galleys and a passenger lounge.
The logistics of turnaround would need addressing, but an A380 in KLM colours would be magnificent?
Desert Rat wrote:How many 744 does KLM still have???
At the moment 5 744 in full pax version and 17 744 in Combi version.
Just flew in two of them : Amsterdam-Beijing (PH-BFD) and Seoul-Amsterdam (PH-BFR), both times in economy.
Maybe not the most modern inflight entertainment (no PTV, no AVOD,...) but it is still a mighty and impressive plane to fly in; despite their age, these planes are well kept and the cabin is still in good condition.
Legroom is not huge, but still sufficient...
Because there is no personal video, I could catch a good sleep twice...
I think the replacement cycle is highly linked to the age of the fleet, and a look at Boeing's site reveals the following:
The 5 full pax B747-400s were delivered in May and June 1989, April 1990, December 1991 and April 1993.
The 17 combi B747-400Ms were delivered in 1989 (2), 1990 (3), 1991 (2), 1992 (2), 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997 (2), 1999, 2000 and 2002.
So the first 3 to 4 pax models will need replacement soon and I expect the B777-300ER to take care of that, being the model that is currently available and best suited until the A350 joins the game. 9 early combi's also seem to be concerned by a short term replacement so I'd expect them to be replaced by B777-200ERs and maybe the odd A330-200 should KL wish to play on the numbers but that seems little capacity seat and range wise.
I think it is unlikely to consider KL would phase out the old B747-400 full pax, configure the younger combi's as full pax, and replace them with smaller units e.g. B777-200ER or A330s.
That is unless KL (and AF?), like several others, would warm up to the idea of the economics of the A330-300. But I still find this unlikely, although it would be a good interim solution combined with an order for A350s of all sizes. I would not exclude an order for the B787 either but it would be very late until AF and KL can get their hands on either of both, save for some leasing options and thanks to their status as an important customer of both OEMs.
As far as replacing the Fokkers is concerned, I'm really out of touch when it comes to anything below the B737-600 and A318. And I do not see the A380 making a career at KL although a few units and its wonderful economics could probably be used on some Asian trunk routes.
Just a thought, but if there is enough of a freight demand, the A380 could be a magnificent combi with passengers on the upper deck and a strengthened main deck for freight, and probably toilets, galleys and a passenger lounge.
How right u are !
So long ago since I said this
It seems indeed the obvious thing to offer
I don't understand them always in Toulouse
I guess Toulouse has to focuse on the pax version of the A380...even if it is a combi version some important part of the primary structure have to be redesigned to accept the load increase...
But it is true that it would be nice to see a A380 Combi....
I am sorry to contradict your nice idea, but nowadays only very few routes could economically support combi planes. While most passengers want to go nonstop on longhaul flights, the vast majority of cargo flights operates with intermediate landings to refill. This is usually cheaper and often offers additional shipping possibilities. KLM is still an exception to this, and there are some more - but today most air freight is moved by dedicated freighters in stages around 3000 nm. Things could change again with a global deregulation, if a dozen or so airlines would have multiple hubs all over the world with universal traffic rights (Those traffic rights are actually another burden for combi planes - countries like India have open skies for cargo, while being heavily restricted for passenger operations).
I think this rumours are not true. Klm decided to install in all the B744 and combi aircraft personal inflight entertainment in the economy class. For that reason the aircraft floor has to be redesigned, and all the seats has to be replaced, etc; The first aircraft, the ph-bfn should be ready mid summer 2009. Would be very strange that they will replace the 744's soon.
bae146be wrote:I think this rumours are not true. Klm decided to install in all the B744 and combi aircraft personal inflight entertainment in the economy class. For that reason the aircraft floor has to be redesigned, and all the seats has to be replaced, etc; The first aircraft, the ph-bfn should be ready mid summer 2009. Would be very strange that they will replace the 744's soon.
It would be verry strange indeed but not unique. Where I work they are building new offices in a building they need to decide on whether they keep it or not after 2010. As far as I know they didn't decide yet.
To me it seems that managers do not always make rational decissions.
The half yearly results were presented last Thursday, and the Dutch aviation news site L.-nieuws.nl noted some interesting developments about the long haul fleet: the 747-400's will stay in the fleet longer then announced previously, delay for their next 777.
Link to the article, translated through translate.google.com from Dutch into English (thus with language errors): http://tinyurl.com/5dyryc
