Hainan proposes to build its own terminal in CRL

[b-west]

Seeing we shouldn't let the new routes topic derail, I suppose a new topic is in order for this rather important news.

Belgian newspaper De Standaard reportsthat Hainan airlines is one of the three potential candidates for the partial privatisation of Charleroi airport. The company wants to make CRL the hub of its European operations and even construct a new terminal at the airport.

The other two interested parties are Belgian Sky shops and the Italian group Save.

Interestingly, the newspaper also reports that Hainan wants to initially start new routes from BRU to Hongkong and Shanghai. These would then all be moved once Hainans plans for CRL come through.

[BrightCedars]

Interestingly, the newspaper also reports that Hainan wants to initially start new routes from BRU to Hongkong and Shanghai. These would then all be moved once Hainans plans for CRL come through.

And what exactly would make of CRL a hub to collect and spread traffic on the old continent? Ryanair's existing service, long-haul metal used on short European hops, or a whole new carrier based there?

[Acid-drop]

A new carrier is not a bad idea ... but it would fight with ryanair ... and I can't imagine that only hainan pax would make this company run ...

Ryanair will soon have a very nice network out of CRL though. Interesting enough to attract companies out of biggest / more expensive airports ...

[Airbus330lover]

And.... do not forget that in many airports... you have to pass your luggage througt the custom and recheck this luggage for the next segment....no problem for passengers outside EU

[Vinnie-Winnie]

A new carrier is not a bad idea ... but it would fight with ryanair ... and I can't imagine that only hainan pax would make this company run ...

Ryanair will soon have a very nice network out of CRL though. Interesting enough to attract companies out of biggest / more expensive airports ...

I've never seen the presence of Ryanair and Easyjet attract other carriers at STN!

[Atlantis]

Interestingly, the newspaper also reports that Hainan wants to initially start new routes from BRU to Hongkong and Shanghai. These would then all be moved once Hainans plans for CRL come through.

And what exactly would make of CRL a hub to collect and spread traffic on the old continent? Ryanair's existing service, long-haul metal used on short European hops, or a whole new carrier based there?

There is a very important sentence in that article: Hainan will only be allowed on Charleroi's tarmac when Hainan controlled a European carrier. Will Ryanair allow a new big player next to them? They will not happy with it and leave every airport were it happens.

Don't expect them too much. There is at this moment no terminal available for such an ops and the runway is way too short for big aircrafts like A330 or A340. And of course this is only speculation. Wait and see and hear what ALL parties has to say to it.

[unilitha]

I really don't get it ! With all due respect to CRL I can't understand such a choice. Even if Ryanair has a pretty good European network outside CRL, many of these destinations are secondary airports such as Girona or Prestwick that are far away from big cities or at least non comfortable to link after an already long 11 hours flight !

Moreover I don't know if they noticed but we don't have any Maglev here in Belgium....what time does the train take to do CRL-BRU ? One hour maybe ? Once again, after a 11h flight you don't want to have to take a train for one hour and then a cab in Brussels to get to your hotel....(even if not everybody is going to BRU of course, but I assume much of the businesses and tourists have in plans to do BRU)

In addition to that, even if BRU is sometimes crowded in the morning , HAINAN has not a very similar schedule in comparison to the American carriers, they land earlier and departs later so no troubles at the pier so far, right ?

As for me, they should install their hub in BRU and benefit from the future help of LH, the more or less good service from SN to Europe and the further development to Africa.

[Atlantis]

And what about their cargo? CRL handles no cargo and has no facilities.

[Acid-drop]

You are right.... if you analyse only the current situation.
CRL is young and lack some important points : like a decent train connection to BRU and other big belgian cities. Then, when it'll be done, soon, it would be closer to BRU than many major airport to their city. But yes, the ryanair network is full of young, bad located airports, but it's cheap. Hainan in CRL would mean they want something cheap rather than something perfect. So why not. It's maybe not your choice, or even the best choice, but it's at least a logical choice.

CRL could handle cargo ... building a new cargo terminal is not very hard, it happens almost every year in BRU or LGG ...

CRL is far from beeing ready. But isnt this discution about the possible future?

[Atlantis]

But what about the impact on the environnement? I can't believe that the people around the airport will be happy that a big player will deploy its European hub on their airport. Movements will increase ,etc.
Do the airport have enough space?

[euroflyer]

congratulations to the long-haul pax who would have to connect with Ryanair to their final destination (or better: to an airport somewhere not too far from their final destination). I cannot see Ryanair focussing in any way on connecting pax. It is right the opposite of what they want to have. And the local market is ways too small to establish a second european carrier there.
So I think you can simply forget the whole story

[airazurxtror]

So I think you can simply forget the whole story

What remains is that Hainan is actually bidding to buy a partial ownership of CRL. Why, if not to use that airport ?

[Atlantis]

I'm 100% sure that Ryanair is no European candidate for Hainan. Ryanair offers no service and that's what Chinese travellers want: service. They pay more then enough.

Chinese don't like a "no" and "strikes" either. Or they want to create a whole new company at CRL but when I see the terrible financial conditions (stocks) of Hainan (Chinese carriers in general) then I ask myself how they are going to do that.

But like De Tijd mentionned, Hainan wants to start up flights to Shanghai and Hong Kong in 2009 to Brussels Airport.

I don't see it happen soon their whole new project at CRL (but again, it's only one single Belgian newspaper who brought this news, no other sources)

Wait and see.

[regi]

The Chinese and Indian economies have quite some similarities:

• Both their currencies are overvalued. That means that they can buy more for their money abroad than in their own country. They know it will not last for ever and they look for strategic overseas investments.
  They want to escape with their cash money to avoid taxes in their home countries.
  They want to become strategic players themselves.
  They have loads of cash.
  Their stocks have tumbled, even before the crisis. The Mumbai Stock exchange lost 50% since January. That means that they can not get their money back out of their own investments. So they invest abroad.

So yes, all is possible. The Chinese could buy a part of the airport shares, just as an investment, without any further goal to do something with it. They have experience in China with building new airports and terminals. So it could be that "next year" a lot of containers arrive at the airport and after 1 month a "made in China" terminal is build. And the profit would come from who uses it. And yes, that could be Ryanair, or who ever.

Good examples:

• Suzlon which bought Hansen Transmissions
  Arcelor Mittal
  Tata which bought Land Rover ( and stopped the local production of the cheap car ! )

[euroflyer]

Tata which bought Land Rover ( and stopped the local production of the cheap car ! )[/list]

sorry, wrong: they could not start production of the cheap small Tata car because there were massive demonstrations by the landowners who did not want to sell their land for the price Tata and the regional government were willing to pay them. So they stopped the building of the factory half way and are now moving all the equipment to another location far away in another part of India. Once the factory will be build there, production of the new car will start next year.

(lesson to learn: India is - at least compared to China - rather a democracy ...)

[euroflyer]

Chinese companies incl. Hainan are all more or less closely under state control (usually you may say under VERY close control ). So if Hainan is bidding for CRL, it does not mean automatically they are going to use the airport. The company might just be a vehicle for the Chinese state to do the investment

[Acid-drop]

The company that will be chosen by the walloon gov will have the obligation to develop both the infrastructure and the employment in the airport. It was clear since the begining.

[JOVAN]

Tata which bought Land Rover ( and stopped the local production of the cheap car ! )[/list]

sorry, wrong: they could not start production of the cheap small Tata car because there were massive demonstrations by the landowners who did not want to sell their land for the price Tata and the regional government were willing to pay them. So they stopped the building of the factory half way and are now moving all the equipment to another location far away in another part of India. Once the factory will be build there, production of the new car will start next year.

(lesson to learn: India is - at least compared to China - rather a democracy ...)

You can also question if Belgium is a democracy or rather a partycracy or rather a nepotismocracy...
Fact is that India, China,... are the countries of the future.
They take over big numbers of companies in Europe, and mostly with a good business perspective.

The trend is there, and good old Europed with its obsolete structures continues to sleep.....

[JOVAN]

Chinese companies incl. Hainan are all more or less closely under state control (usually you may say under VERY close control ). So if Hainan is bidding for CRL, it does not mean automatically they are going to use the airport. The company might just be a vehicle for the Chinese state to do the investment

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

And Hainan will have to follow the conditions of the Walloon government. Good thing.

[NCB]

Wrong again. Hainan is 100% private.
Private companies do exist in China.

Hainan is actually owned more than half by the government.

This discussion is not new.
We have discussed the possibility of Hainan starting a new start-up subsidiary to feed passengers to/from China throughout Europe and Africa.
Hainan has many many aircraft on order and can easily start-up such an operation.

Charleroi Airport can easily accommodate the A332 and B788 and with a bit of extension the A333

If Hainan buys a stake in Charleroi, the extension of the runway will be done in no time together with CAT III ILS and maybe a parallel runway could be added by moving Sabca and other hangars to the other side.

Advantages of CRL for a new Hainan hub are numerous:
-Lower cost on everything from landings to handling
-An airport at their own disposal
-Less congested airport = more efficiency
-Less environmentalists to cope with
-Ability to run its own subsidiary feeder without hassle
-Ability to open their own maintenance facilities
-Alot of potential in all fields

etc...

Building cargo infra-structures are but small details for an airline that's looking to buy an entire airport...