Winter season
5 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
2 operated by SNBA
Summer season
4 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
1 operated by SNBA
Will they reduce their flights to Barcelona?
Is there to much capacity ?
Greetings
Airbuske
Will SNBA reduce their flights to BCN?
Moderator: Latest news team
Will SNBA reduce their flights to BCN?
I was looking on the SNBA website to the online timetables and saw for the flights to Barcelona:
Winter season
5 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
2 operated by SNBA
Summer season
4 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
1 operated by SNBA
Will they reduce their flights to Barcelona?
Is there to much capacity ?
Greetings
Airbuske
Winter season
5 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
2 operated by SNBA
Summer season
4 flights : 3 operated by IBERIA
1 operated by SNBA
Will they reduce their flights to Barcelona?
Is there to much capacity ?
Greetings
Airbuske
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Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
SN is indeed going twice daily to BIO.
BCN will get one frequency less, MAD is at 8 flights a day...
July/August is usually quite slow for SN, I don't think that reviewing the use of their aircrafts is an argument... BCN is mostly booked by tourists (= no high yield, in comparision with MAD).
Frederic
BCN will get one frequency less, MAD is at 8 flights a day...
July/August is usually quite slow for SN, I don't think that reviewing the use of their aircrafts is an argument... BCN is mostly booked by tourists (= no high yield, in comparision with MAD).
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way
I partly disagree. The load factors are high in July and August, but the number of flights is reduced. Remember: SN was lending its A319s to SLR for charter flights, many destinations had reduced schedules, etc.demol wrote:July & August are the busiest months of the year for SN 8O This was already the case in 2002, but certainly in 2003 with record load factors of 67,3% in July & 69,6 in August (the highest registered load factor so far)
That enables staff to take their holidays, but it does not necessarily mean a higher income.
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
What I read on the site http://www.jetonly.be:
Zomervakanties 2004 verzekerd door TUI Airlines Belgium
De vluchten naar Turkije worden ook volgend zomerseizoen onveranderd uitgevoerd door MNG Airlines. Zoals vroeger worden in bepaalde periodes extra-capaciteiten ingezet van betrouwbare lijnvluchtmaatschappijen, zoals SN Brussels Airlines, Tunisair en Iberia.
Extra capacity in the summer season provided by SNBA
So can we expect some charters for Jetair /TUI operated by SNBA
Will they fly again with the A319 to ALC? I hope so
ALC is a very populair destination ( Benidorm , Calpé)
Greetings
Airbuske
Zomervakanties 2004 verzekerd door TUI Airlines Belgium
De vluchten naar Turkije worden ook volgend zomerseizoen onveranderd uitgevoerd door MNG Airlines. Zoals vroeger worden in bepaalde periodes extra-capaciteiten ingezet van betrouwbare lijnvluchtmaatschappijen, zoals SN Brussels Airlines, Tunisair en Iberia.
Extra capacity in the summer season provided by SNBA
So can we expect some charters for Jetair /TUI operated by SNBA
Will they fly again with the A319 to ALC? I hope so
ALC is a very populair destination ( Benidorm , Calpé)
Greetings
Airbuske
-
Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
@demol: sorry but I don't agree! 
Like André said, the frequencies are drastically reduced during July/August, due to the low amount of business travellers.
Of course, SN noticed this too, and started during the past months a lot of advertisement campaigns not only directed to the business traveller, but also to the tourists (from there the inventions like 'Best Buy fare', this really sounds nice for the tourists looking for a good price/quality ticket).
SN Brussels wants much more charter flights in summer 2004 in comparision with summer 2003. This of course to compensate the reduced number of scheduled flights.
Honnestly, what I don't know (and would like to know) is the following: are those charter flights really profitable? I mean, maybe SN made two calculations:
1) how much does it cost to ground x aircrafts during July/August (= reduced frequencies)
2) is it cheaper or more expensive to use several aircrafts (I heard 6-7) for charter traffic
Although I hope for SN that their charterflights are profitable, it can also be that they are less loss-making instead of grounding those planes.
Frederic
Like André said, the frequencies are drastically reduced during July/August, due to the low amount of business travellers.
Of course, SN noticed this too, and started during the past months a lot of advertisement campaigns not only directed to the business traveller, but also to the tourists (from there the inventions like 'Best Buy fare', this really sounds nice for the tourists looking for a good price/quality ticket).
SN Brussels wants much more charter flights in summer 2004 in comparision with summer 2003. This of course to compensate the reduced number of scheduled flights.
Honnestly, what I don't know (and would like to know) is the following: are those charter flights really profitable? I mean, maybe SN made two calculations:
1) how much does it cost to ground x aircrafts during July/August (= reduced frequencies)
2) is it cheaper or more expensive to use several aircrafts (I heard 6-7) for charter traffic
Although I hope for SN that their charterflights are profitable, it can also be that they are less loss-making instead of grounding those planes.
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way
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Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
Ok, so I agree to disagree with you on the fact that I disagreed to agree with you! Do we agree on that?
): SN is much more dependent from business pax than for example Lufthansa.
Lufthansa has a big feeder system: they fill their European network with all the connecting pax coming from TG/UA/NH/... + their own point to point traffic (of which quite a big part seems to be high yield). I don't find you can compare SN with airlines like KL/LH/AF/...
I think that a better comparision would be LG. LG also manages to make a profit with low loads (with a high yield), and LG is also business-oriented with a good product. And just like SN will perform charters, also LG has charter flights (think about their flights from LUX to FNC, even from BRU to BIA in the summermonths).
If there is one threat to the future of SNBA, it's the danger of a real low cost airline. EZY has already shown interest to start flying to BRU in the past, and I would not be surprised to see, besides VEX (which is a very weak low cost airline in my opinion), more low cost airlines at BRU. Don't forget what Pierre Klees said a few months ago: he found low cost airlines very important for the developpement of BRU (now they have a lot of overcapacity) and he was doing efforts to attract low cost carriers to BRU.
A consequence would be that:
a) SN has to slash their fares to stay competetive
b) slashing their fares also means slashing several services (like cutting inflight service back etc, reducing several grond services,... bye bye business oriented airline)
SN still has quite a weak financial base (they are doing good, certainly with the difficult economical situation, but we will only be able to say more from 2006, once we know more about important things like their fleet-replacement program, the increase of high yield pax, etc etc).
Anyway, I see that at SN they are doing a good job, working hard, and I hope that with their efforts a nice new Belgian flag carrier will be established on a solid base within about 3-4-5 years, named SN Brussels Airlines.
Frederic
Do we agree on that? I don't agree (againSure, but I am not contesting that SN is cutting back on capacity I just feel that this is not an argument as other scheduled airlines have the same problem, so why should SN be any different
): SN is much more dependent from business pax than for example Lufthansa.Lufthansa has a big feeder system: they fill their European network with all the connecting pax coming from TG/UA/NH/... + their own point to point traffic (of which quite a big part seems to be high yield). I don't find you can compare SN with airlines like KL/LH/AF/...
I think that a better comparision would be LG. LG also manages to make a profit with low loads (with a high yield), and LG is also business-oriented with a good product. And just like SN will perform charters, also LG has charter flights (think about their flights from LUX to FNC, even from BRU to BIA in the summermonths).
If there is one threat to the future of SNBA, it's the danger of a real low cost airline. EZY has already shown interest to start flying to BRU in the past, and I would not be surprised to see, besides VEX (which is a very weak low cost airline in my opinion), more low cost airlines at BRU. Don't forget what Pierre Klees said a few months ago: he found low cost airlines very important for the developpement of BRU (now they have a lot of overcapacity) and he was doing efforts to attract low cost carriers to BRU.
A consequence would be that:
a) SN has to slash their fares to stay competetive
b) slashing their fares also means slashing several services (like cutting inflight service back etc, reducing several grond services,... bye bye business oriented airline)
SN still has quite a weak financial base (they are doing good, certainly with the difficult economical situation, but we will only be able to say more from 2006, once we know more about important things like their fleet-replacement program, the increase of high yield pax, etc etc).
Anyway, I see that at SN they are doing a good job, working hard, and I hope that with their efforts a nice new Belgian flag carrier will be established on a solid base within about 3-4-5 years, named SN Brussels Airlines.
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way
Dear all,
Hereby some facts.
x The frequency reduction in BCN has to do with slotproblems at BCN Airport. If you don't get the right slot there it makes no sense flying during onpupular hours...
x SN will operate charterfligfhts from Marseille, Nice, Toulouse, Lyon to Corsica, Sardegna, Sicily, Italy and Balearic Islands (TUI France / Nouvelles Frontieres)
x SN will operate charters from Brussels to Corsica, Toulon, Sicily, Sardegna, Italy and Palma de Mallorca (JetAir, CIT, Nouvelles Frontieres, Wasteels, ...)
x Eindhoven-Lourdes charterflights
x Monthly Brussels - Strassbourg EU Parliament shuttle as of March (3 aircraft)
x Discussions going on for more contracts.
Most of these flights are operated on day 6 and 7
Hereby some facts.
x The frequency reduction in BCN has to do with slotproblems at BCN Airport. If you don't get the right slot there it makes no sense flying during onpupular hours...
x SN will operate charterfligfhts from Marseille, Nice, Toulouse, Lyon to Corsica, Sardegna, Sicily, Italy and Balearic Islands (TUI France / Nouvelles Frontieres)
x SN will operate charters from Brussels to Corsica, Toulon, Sicily, Sardegna, Italy and Palma de Mallorca (JetAir, CIT, Nouvelles Frontieres, Wasteels, ...)
x Eindhoven-Lourdes charterflights
x Monthly Brussels - Strassbourg EU Parliament shuttle as of March (3 aircraft)
x Discussions going on for more contracts.
Most of these flights are operated on day 6 and 7
-
Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
@Presssn: thanks for the facts
@demol: I mis-expressed myself into certain cases
About the feeder concept: you always say that SN needs to open more destinations, to CREATE a feeder. Are you sure that the yield will not be lowered too much with starting feeder flights (like Sabena had a lot in the past, only think about FRA for example)? The hub and spoke system proved to be very loss-making for Sabena. Does SNBA have to make the same mistake? Of course, their cost base is much lower than the one of Sabena, but still then... They are making a profit based especially on point to point traffic. It's better not to take too much risks...
Frederic
@demol: I mis-expressed myself into certain cases
Volume is indeed an important factor, and the Best Buy fares are indeed proving to be quite successful. Of course LH has an important business class traffic (only look at the nr of C-class pax on their BRU-FRA flights), but still: LH has a much more solid financial base than SN Brussels (which is logic if you compare a young with a very well established carrier). But... it will not hurt LH when one flight is leaving almost full with Y-class pax. SN needs it's business class pax to compensate their low(er) load factor. When you take the 60% load factor of SN: how can they be profitable when 55% would fly Y-class (of course this argument makes no sense when SN sells a lot of full-fare Y tickets). LH has a load factor close to 80%, so they are getting much more revenues in general on their flights.Quote:
I don't agree (again ): SN is much more dependent from business pax than for example Lufthansa.
Are you sure about that? SN became more and more successful after the introduction of the 'Best Buy' fares, which aren't exactly 'high yield' fares Besides, if there is 1 airline in Europe who appeals to business pax, it must be LH
About the feeder concept: you always say that SN needs to open more destinations, to CREATE a feeder. Are you sure that the yield will not be lowered too much with starting feeder flights (like Sabena had a lot in the past, only think about FRA for example)? The hub and spoke system proved to be very loss-making for Sabena. Does SNBA have to make the same mistake? Of course, their cost base is much lower than the one of Sabena, but still then... They are making a profit based especially on point to point traffic. It's better not to take too much risks...
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way
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Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
Ok, after reading again through this thread, I'm convinced that those contracts are positive for SN...
Something else that bothers me. Will the pax get the normal service of SN Brussels, or are the tour operators deciding what SN serves?
I mean, when SN has to serve some crappy non-existant service (like SLR offered me a small sandwich on a 4h flight to FNC), aren't those pax going to think that SN is a bad airline?
It's quite dangerous if this happens.... they will not make the difference anymore between a full service airline, and the charter flights operated by that airline.
Frederic
Something else that bothers me. Will the pax get the normal service of SN Brussels, or are the tour operators deciding what SN serves?
I mean, when SN has to serve some crappy non-existant service (like SLR offered me a small sandwich on a 4h flight to FNC), aren't those pax going to think that SN is a bad airline?
It's quite dangerous if this happens.... they will not make the difference anymore between a full service airline, and the charter flights operated by that airline.
Frederic
Brussels Airlines - Flying Your Way