At Least 141 Die In Egypt Plane Crash.

[Lame]

EGYPT

At least 141 die in Egypt plane crash

Posted Sat, 03 Jan 2004

An Egyptian charter plane with 135 passengers and six crew members on board crashed into the Red Sea early on Saturday, shortly after take off from the coastal resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, the civil aviation authority in Cairo said.

The plane, a Boeing 737 belonging to private Egyptian company Flash Air, had 129 French tourists on board and six Egyptian passengers, the authority said.

The authority added in a statement that the plane was heading to Cairo but the Egyptian official television said it was bound to France.

Meanwhile, the official MENA news agency reported an accident could have caused the crash.

"It is possible that the plane could have had an accident," it said, quoting civil aviation officials.

Pieces of wreckage from the plane were found in the sea about 15 kilometres south of Sharm el-Sheikh, the authority said.

The plane disappeared from the radar screens of Cairo airport at 4.44am (0244 GMT), minutes after taking off from Sharm el-Sheikh airport, it said.

"Efforts are deployed to recover the victims, the number of the victims or the injured is not yet known," said the statement.

According to pro-government newspaper Al-Ahram, Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was scheduled to go to Sharm el-Sheikh Saturday for talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, who is holidaying there.

[Allnipponairways]

very very strange that it is ful with french tourist if just a few days ago , the air france was looking into some pilots and cabin crew who might have been suspisious and also cancelled some flights top the states ...

13 crew on a 737 ... what do the egyptians think this plane is a 747 ???

greets

flying cobra

ps watch it in the air ...

[SN30952]

The plane, a Boeing 737 belonging to private Egyptian company Flash Air, had 129 French tourists on board and six Egyptian passengers, the authority said. "It is possible that the plane could have had an accident," it said, quoting civil aviation officials.

On the inbound the B737 came in from Italy. It had two crews on board 7+6 and was bound for Roissy.

[Avro]

I just heard the news on the radio too.
It's very sad

13 crew on a 737 ... what do the egyptians think this plane is a 747 ???

There weren't 13 crew member on the plane. The 737 was carrying 135 passengers and 6 crew.

It's probably a B737-300 from Flash Air , that crashed this morning
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/458686/L/

Regards
Chris

[SN30952]

The plane, a Boeing 737 belonging to private Egyptian company Flash Air, had 129 French tourists on board and six Egyptian passengers, the authority said. "It is possible that the plane could have had an accident," it said, quoting civil aviation officials.

On the inbound the B737 came in from Italy. It had two crews on board 7+6 and was bound for Roissy.
Little wreckage could be seen in the Red Sea where an Egyptian passenger plane crashed on Saturday and no survivors have yet been brought to shore, a witness said.
"You can see very small pieces of wreckage," Rolf Schmidt, manager of Sinai Divers center, said. "We have not seen any survivors brought ashore yet," he said, adding that the crash site could be seen from shore.
An aviation ministry source said the Boeing 737 airliner crashed into the Red Sea after take-off from the resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, killing all 135 passengers and 6 crew.
Schmidt said helicopters were hovering over the site and about 10 boats were involved in the rescue operation.

Some reports say 135 + 6 crew +6 Egyptians (Is that the imcoming crew?)

[SN30952]

Flash Airlines operates two Boeing 737s and is part of Flash Group, which offers vacation packages across Egypt.

" Fly in Style with Flash Airlines"
Flash Airlines is an Egyptian Airline Company with the objective to satisfy fully the client needs. Safety and reliability are the motto of the company. Flash Airlines is a charter company licensed for non-scheduled commercial passenger flights on international and domestic routes with two Boeing 737-300. Flash Airlines serves mainly the tourism & travel industry performing charter flights covering inclusive tour packages and incentive trips.
Flash Airlines operates flights to all countries on short and medium haul destinations, having a base in Cairo and flying to all European cities with convenient schedules and prices. Flash Airlines modern fleet is based on 2 Boeing 737-300 manufactured in 1993, equipped with the lasted navigational instruments such as GPS. Flash Airlines has hired highly trained cabin crews, having a long experience and know-how in the airline industry. Each flight will be an enjoyable journey. Based on each market's specific needs for their program & packages, the clients/ operators will be offered a wide choice of flight timetable to fit at best their requested schedule.
Flash Airlines is a charter aviation company working under the Egyptian Laws.
Flash Airlines is operating with two Boeing 737-300, both aircrafts manufactured in 1993, bearing the Egyptian registration SU - ZCD / S / N 26286 delivered in February 2000 & SU - ZCF / S/N 26283 delivered in June 2001.

Flash Airlines Boeing 737-300 fleet with 148 seats configuration all Y (Economy) class in addition to the operating cabin crew, 25 rows with 29 inch / with reclining seats and convenient table meals with cup holders, TV screen & headphones.
Flash Airlines fleet Boeing 737-300, is equipped with powerful CFM 56-3C1 engines, with 22000 ibs / thrusts and the up-to-date computerized navigational instruments such as WAS II and GPS; the take-off weight is 63276 KGs is pressurized, to ceiling is 37000 feet, and the average cruising speed is Mach 0.74.
Flash Airlines qualified pilots have a minimum of 5000 hours each, and long experience of flying domestically and internationally.
Flash Airlines qualified Engineers are certified by the Egyptian Civil Aviation Authorities to perform light maintenance up to 8A checks for our fleet.
Flash Airlines both aircrafts are insured for legal and third party liability and passenger, liability by El Shark Insurance Company for an amount of 550 Millions USD for each aircraft.

Head Office
166 B El Hegaz St. Heliopolis. Cairo, Egypt.
Tel: (20-12) 3903254.
Fax: (20-2) 6240641.
SITA: CAIHPCR
E-mail: flash@flashtour.net

Also Luxor flight by Flash Airlines cancelled....
03:55 07:55 FLASH AIRLINES FSH600 LOUXOR CDG T3 Annulé
Informations sur le vol FSH600
Jour Heure Aérogare
Départ 03/01/2004 03:55 LOUXOR
Arrivée 03/01/2004 07:55 CDG T3

Avion Numéro de Vol Compagnie Téléphone
BOEING 737-300 PASSENGER FSH600 FLASH AIRLINES Non connu
Escales
Etat du vol Le vol est annulé

Un avion charter égyptien s'abîme en mer Rouge
"Tout ce que nous savons pour le moment, c'est qu'un avion a disparu deux minutes après avoir décollé de Charm el-Cheikh à destination du Caire. Le numéro de vol était 8604"

So it might be that the second crew was getting of in CAI?

Sharm el-Sheikh = Charm el-Cheikh in French (??!@) for your searching)

[SN30952]

05:10 09:00 FLASH AIRLINES FSH604 SHARM EL SHEIKH CDG T3 Prévu à 09:00

Informations sur le vol FSH604
Jour Heure Aérogare
Départ 03/01/2004 05:10 SHARM EL SHEIKH
Arrivée 03/01/2004 09:00 CDG T3

Avion Numéro de Vol Compagnie Téléphone
BOEING 737-300 PASSENGER FSH604 FLASH AIRLINES Non connu
Escales
Etat du vol Arrivée prévue à 09:00

Aeroports de Paris did not change the arrival info yet. (11h00 Local Paris Time)

[Avro]

Poor Company, they've lost half of their fleet.

TV screen & headphones.

I didn't know it was possible to have TV screens in the B737-300

Chris

[SN30952]

Something is bugging me:
The Flash Airlines Luxor - Paris was also concalled...
AND:
11:08:00 (GMT) 03-01-04
France-Egypt
Chirac contacts Mubarak in wake of plane crash...
11:19:00 (GMT) 03-01-04
Egypt-aircrash-developments
Navigation sources rule out sabotage as cause of the aircrash.
11:26:00 (GMT) 03-01-04
Egypt-France
French embassy in Cairo: 134 French nationals killed in plane crash.

The Boeing 737 took off shortly before 5am local time (0300 GMT) and quickly disappeared from radar about seven miles south of the airport, said airport officials.
There was no distress call made, according to officials at Egypt's Ministry of Civil Aviation.
The weather was clear in Sharm el-Sheikh and other flights were taking off without incident
The crash happened amid a week of heightened concerns about terrorist threats from the air that have led to increased security and cancelled flights around the world.
But an initial statement from aviation ministry ruled out terrorism, calling the crash an "accident" that may have been caused by a mechanical problem.


(That plane came in from Italy, there seemed nothing wrong with it...and it is said that the wreckages is little...) There is more to that....
.

[A318]

Sad, really sad.
My thoughts are with the people that stay behind.
I can not believe this is just an accident seen the Airlines maintenance and operation history.
But who would want to attack a plane full of french people?
If one country was holding back all the time it is France.
I will keep following this accident closely.

Greetz,

Erwin

[SN30952]

Eyewitnesses said they were finding pieces of human bodies but no complete corpses and no survivors.
"We have half of a body here, half a body there. But we don't have any body in one piece," said a rescue worker.
We have collected very small pieces of the plane but the body of the plane has sunk," said another rescue worker.
"What they have picked up so far is just fragments of bodies. The chances of finding complete bodies look slim because of the force with which the plane hit the surface of the water." A spokesman for the local authorities said

The plane crashed in the Strait of Tiran, between the Sinai peninsula and Saudi Arabia, where the water is hundreds of meters deep -- too deep for divers to reach the flight recording devices, diving school managers said.

Bad season indeed for Boeing....

[AN124]

This is indeed a sad accident.

If I read your post SN30952 it sounds to me if the plane exploded in the air.
From a crash on the water you won't have body parts all around but that's just my opinion.

It's just waiting until we have more news about the crash.

Bye the way, with special equipment it should be possible to get the flight data recorders to the surface.
I think Boeing really wants to now what happened to this plane.

Best Regards,
Yvo

[luchtzak]

where the water is hundreds of meters deep

For information: Belgian radio Donna told in their news-edition that the water was around 1.000 meters deep.

Sad story for everyone involved in this accident: family, friends and relatives

[L-1011]

I'd like to react to the avaiation safety remarks made in this locked topic.

There are more Boieng crashes than Airbus ones because:
1. There are more Boeing's flying than Airbus
2. There are more old Boeing's than Airbus'

ciao,
TriStar

[AN124]

Just found the following message at the Dutch News.
See following link for the once that speak Dutch:
http://teletekst.nos.nl/gif/124-01.html

Its said that Paris want that the court invistigates the plane crash in Egypt. They want the invistigation because of murder (please correct me if I translated this part wrong)

The French ministerof transport agrees with Egypt that nothing as pointing in the direction of a terrorist attack. According to him the pilot tried the return to the airport.


I think this is a strange anouncement because in the first part it sounds like they think it WASN'T an accident and in the second part they say they agree with the Egypt that it IS an accident.

Best Regards,
Yvo

[SN30952]

I'd like to react to the aviation safety remarks made in this locked topic.
There are more Boieng crashes than Airbus ones because:
1. There are more Boeing's flying than Airbus
2. There are more old Boeing's than Airbus'
ciao,
TriStar

Thaaat's right TriStar: there are more accidents with german car in Germany, and with japanese cars in Japan.
It would be helpful if we could come up with statitics on the number of hours flown by each make of aircraft, or the number of landings and take offs...
But is it a feeling I have, the commuters seem quite safe? And propellers seem also to better stay airborn ....

[SN30952]

The weather was clear in Sharm el-Sheik, 300 miles southeast of Cairo on the Sinai peninsula, and other flights were taking off without incident, officials said.

The jet flew in early Saturday from Milan*, Italy, dropping off passengers in Sharm el-Sheik, the airline said. New passengers then boarded for the flight to Paris via Cairo.

The airplane received its maintenance checks in Norway and the most recent one showed no problems, the airline said.

*I got also other information it was VCE.

[L-1011]

But is it a feeling I have, the commuters seem quite safe? And propellers seem also to better stay airborn ....

I think commuters are less prone to such accidents because they make small hops, and thus are perhaps not stressing the engines and avionics as much as the long-haul, but then again they have more cycles which is a disdvantage

I think the props have better aerodynamics which allows them to stall at much lower speeds, and thus in event of a failure they can glide more easily and farther than the jets. Am I wrong

As for the detailed statistics I'm trying to find some, I think I once saw the on some site.

ciao,
TriStar

[SN30952]

But is it a feeling I have, the commuters seem quite safe? And propellers seem also to better stay airborn ....

I think commuters are less prone to such accidents because they make small hops, and thus are perhaps not stressing the engines and avionics as much as the long-haul, but then again they have more cycles which is a disdvantage
I think the props have better aerodynamics which allows them to stall at much lower speeds, and thus in event of a failure they can glide more easily and farther than the jets. Am I wrong ciao, TriStar

TriStar I got some stats, from BAAA in Geneve: 162 accidents were recorded in 2003

Among the 162 lost aicraft, 77 % were of turbopropeller type against 23 % of the jet type. The European manufacturer Airbus recorded the loss only one aircraft (without victim). On the other hand, Boeing lost 7. See LATEST NEWS for full details...

I WAS SURPRISED... but we have to know, private, military, sanitary and surveillance flights are included... We tend to see only commercial traffic here: regular and charter.

[Avro]

It would be helpful if we could come up with statitics on the number of hours flown by each make of aircraft, or the number of landings and take offs...

Here you go Fons



Aircraft model.......flights * 1.000.000...crashes.......chances to have a crash

Airbus A300..............8.00.......................9.................1 on 888.888

Airbus A310..............2.70.......................5.................1 on 540.000

Airbus A320/319/321....6.........................4.................1 on 1.500.000

Boeing 727................70..........................47.................1 on 1.489.000

Boeing 737................76..........................48.................1 on 1.583.333

Boeing 747................14.8.......................26.................1 on 569.230

Boeing 757................7.2..........................7.................1 on 1.028.571

Boeing 767................6.5..........................6.................1 on 1.083.333

DC-9.........................55.5..........................42.................1 on 1.321.428

Fokker 70/100...........4.5.............................4.................1 on 1.125.000

Saab 340 ..................9................................3.................1 on 3.000.000

More details on http://www.turbulentie.nl

So you can clearly see that the B737 is safer that the A320 family....

If you look at all the boeings and airbusses among this table you will clearly see that it is wrong to say that Boeings are unsafer than Airbuses.

Ciao
Chris
PS: Post done in close colaboration with L-1011
8)