Sobelair : End of the line ?
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Sobelair : End of the line ?
Will Sobelair recover from (almost) bankruptcy ?
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sabena4ever
- Posts: 262
- Joined: 20 Oct 2003, 00:00
- Location: Bruxelles
Even then, if they send it to the prosecution, i think that they should end it as soon as possible.
For the employees it isn't a nice situation to be in, and i guess that the confusion and uncertainty is even the hardest of all to bear.
Sobelair already knows for a long time that they are in a very difficult position, and nobody has done something so far. So i guess that the company is doomed. At the end, it can even be better that they go bankrupt, at least then there is maybe a chance for a healthier company (like the SN and SNBA story) to take over and offer great service together with being profitable!
Greets,
Pieter
For the employees it isn't a nice situation to be in, and i guess that the confusion and uncertainty is even the hardest of all to bear.
Sobelair already knows for a long time that they are in a very difficult position, and nobody has done something so far. So i guess that the company is doomed. At the end, it can even be better that they go bankrupt, at least then there is maybe a chance for a healthier company (like the SN and SNBA story) to take over and offer great service together with being profitable!
Greets,
Pieter
Would that also apply to Sobelair?
Look what I found* in page 9/11 of Beca Analysis:Q707 wrote:Sorry to say, but the patient has terminal cancer.S S
Reisagenten roepen op Sabena te steunen
08/02/2001
(djd)
Met een marktaandeel van 30 procent scoort Sabena echter veel slechter dan concurrenten in buurlanden. Een Nederlander vliegt KLM, een Duitser Lufthansa, een Belg heeft die reflex minder.
,,Sabena is zijn francofoon imago niet kwijt'', verklaart Van Eeckhoudt. ,,Een deel van de Vlamingen heeft geen voeling met onze national carrier .''
Would 'dat' also apply to Sobelair?
Some people keep forgetting the client always has a choice. They have choosen.
*It took me some time to remember where I read this before....
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Comet
- Posts: 6481
- Joined: 05 Jul 2003, 00:00
- Location: Scarborough, North Yorkshire, England
- Contact:
I would hate to see Sobelair suffer the same fate as Sabena. Like I have said before, too many Belgian airlines have gone in the recent past and it would be a shame to see another one go.
It's a sad fact that charter airlines often have problems, like MyTravel in the UK has massive problems, they are solely dependant on the overseas tourist market. Many tourists were put off flying by the events of 11th September, and charter carriers have suffered as a result. But I think seeing the end of an old company like Sobelair would be the same as seeing the end of Britannia for British aviation enthusiasts - they are a part of aviation history.
It's a sad fact that charter airlines often have problems, like MyTravel in the UK has massive problems, they are solely dependant on the overseas tourist market. Many tourists were put off flying by the events of 11th September, and charter carriers have suffered as a result. But I think seeing the end of an old company like Sobelair would be the same as seeing the end of Britannia for British aviation enthusiasts - they are a part of aviation history.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise
Louise
Further to what I wrote above (and in the Latest News section), here is an article from Expatica:
André
ex Sabena #26567
ex Sabena #26567
Q707 wrote:Sorry to say, but the patient has terminal cancer
SS
fftopic: Q707, I apreciate it a lot if you use normal language here. Anouncements like this can hurt a lot of people that have to deal with this disease or someone close to them. This includes me and it pisses me off!!!
On Topic:
I think Sobelair will survive since I hear stories going around about Arabic investers that are going to help Sobelair.
I should compair Sobelair with Air Holland (even they are in a more worse position I think since the personell of Air Holland is not receiving salaries) because they are struggling but somehow they always survive.
Greetz,
Erwin
A Whole Different Animal
I've flown on Sobelair several times and noticed that money could have been saved.
Many planes were too big for the route served. Flew a B737-400 which seats +/- 170 passengers and we were only about 20 on board!!!! This was a flight during the peak season at christmas.
Last year on another flight with Sobelair, flew back from Marrakech and noticed something even stranger: There were 2 flight departing from Marrakech airport to BRU. The second flight left about 1h30 after the first one. In total there were only about 120 people at the airport flying to Brussels that evening. They could have easily just put everyone on one flight! My flight (the 1st one) only had 35 people on board.
Was a comfortable flight, but a bit of a waste as charter airlines know exactly how many passengers there will be. You would have thought that they could have just scheduled one flight.
On another flight, to my surprise, the air hostesses came around asking if people smoked. If so, they could go to the back of the plane. Very shocked and unheard of in the 21st Century!!!
Captain.
Many planes were too big for the route served. Flew a B737-400 which seats +/- 170 passengers and we were only about 20 on board!!!! This was a flight during the peak season at christmas.
Last year on another flight with Sobelair, flew back from Marrakech and noticed something even stranger: There were 2 flight departing from Marrakech airport to BRU. The second flight left about 1h30 after the first one. In total there were only about 120 people at the airport flying to Brussels that evening. They could have easily just put everyone on one flight! My flight (the 1st one) only had 35 people on board.
Was a comfortable flight, but a bit of a waste as charter airlines know exactly how many passengers there will be. You would have thought that they could have just scheduled one flight.
On another flight, to my surprise, the air hostesses came around asking if people smoked. If so, they could go to the back of the plane. Very shocked and unheard of in the 21st Century!!!
Captain.
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Sabena_690
- Posts: 3378
- Joined: 20 Sep 2002, 00:00
More than any court, I believe that Sobelair's fate is in the hands of its main (only?) client : Jet Air.
And as we all know, they're about to start their own carrier...
That's the main problem with charters, they're too dependant on other companies (namely TO's). If their client has a sound business and is pleased with the service provided, all is well. But in a general recession...
What can Vastapane & Co do if JetAir doesn't renew their contract?
VFlies
And as we all know, they're about to start their own carrier...
That's the main problem with charters, they're too dependant on other companies (namely TO's). If their client has a sound business and is pleased with the service provided, all is well. But in a general recession...
What can Vastapane & Co do if JetAir doesn't renew their contract?
VFlies
Doesn't that strike a familiar note?
That's what I said higher:vflies wrote:More than any court, I believe that Sobelair's fate is in the hands of its main (only?) client : Jet Air. VFlies
Belgian travel agents granted Sabena only 30% of the busuness. Now for a charter company their clients are not travel agents but tour operators. I wonder what % of this market was granted to Sobelair? How much % did the belgian TO's grant Sobelair? My guess 20-25%.
My conclusion would have been: if I as belgian charter operator can only be granted 20-25% of the domestic market, I have to find business outside this market. And secondly, and there is the big mistake, there is something else than flying passengers! There is cargo. The mistake of Sobelair was/is not to tap into that booming market @ Zaventem.
Maybe they considered looking abroad for new markets, maybe without success, or because that line of work was not convenient enough for the ladies and gentlemen? In both cases they are guilty of not persisting. The old reflex of relying on Sabena surfaced again, when the talk was about a merger with SNBA. The easiest way out!
They had to close JNB, where other airlines were adding frequency.
BTW do you know that South Africa is the country where there are the most BELGIAN expats, more than Spain. But it seemed there was no affinity with these in majority Flemish expats, I was told during my last stay. The expats choosed to fly other carriers. Why was that?
The belgian TO's used to be manned by a generation that had to leave in the reshuffles and take overs. The people manning the decision positions now have lets say other affinities. And why should the TO's want to fly themselves, when they could squeeze Sobelair to the max? Because of what, I ask. You seem to want to ignore that in these forums.
If Sabena had had more support of the belgian public, the politicians would not have dared to drop it like they did. But the lack of affinity with the home market and the people of that country, led to what we've seen. Because politicians don't do what is unpopular, because that might hurt themselves.
Both Sabena and Sobelair seem to be sick in the same bed, is a Flemish phrase and I hope not to hurt somebody personally writing this, meaning also same causes same effects.
You don't like to hear this, neither do I. But these in my eyes, are the reasons. Doesn't that strike a familiar note?
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sabena4ever
- Posts: 262
- Joined: 20 Oct 2003, 00:00
- Location: Bruxelles
Re: Doesn't that strike a familiar note?
Hi
Indeed, it's sad to hear or write what you have wrote!!
Sobelair is the only francophone company here in Belgium.
But nobody wants to help it,....
so, we are talking to the end of Sobelair, and everybody enjoy the new company TUI, N.V.,
The end of Sabena was a shame. Sabena, "c'était la vitrine de la Belgique"
for all belgians.
Remember what a pilote has said the day of the bankruptcy of Sabena....
I 'm very disappointed about what you are thinking
Ciao d sabena4ever
Indeed, it's sad to hear or write what you have wrote!!
Sobelair is the only francophone company here in Belgium.
But nobody wants to help it,....
so, we are talking to the end of Sobelair, and everybody enjoy the new company TUI, N.V.,
The end of Sabena was a shame. Sabena, "c'était la vitrine de la Belgique"
for all belgians.
Remember what a pilote has said the day of the bankruptcy of Sabena....
I 'm very disappointed about what you are thinking
Ciao d sabena4ever
Re: Doesn't that strike a familiar note?
sabena4ever wrote:Hi,
Indeed, it's sad to hear or write what you have wrote!! I 'm very disappointed about what you are thinking Ciao d sabena4ever
Truth(s) may hurt.... But hiding for the facts is no solution...