A birth on board flight SN352 from Kinshasa

Post by **sn26567** » 12 Oct 2007, 17:34

(in French: http://www.rtlinfo.be/news/article/4433 ... -Bruxelles)

A baby was born on the flight SN352 from Kinshasa to Brussels last night (11-12 Oct 07). The birth took place in the rear galley, over the Sahara desert, at around 2:00 am UTC. The cabin crew had been trained for such events and helped.

The baby was named Daniella, which was also the name of the co-pilot who served as one of the witnesses. The official birth papers were signed bu the pilot.

There were 233 passengers on board on departure, and 234 on arrival.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 12 Oct 2007, 18:22

newspaper article in Dutch:
http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail ... 102007_041

Post by **luchtzak** » 12 Oct 2007, 19:09

Congratulations to the parents!

I don't know this will be the case now but in the Sabena era a baby born on board could fly his/her entire life for free!

Tommypilot · Post by **Tommypilot** » 12 Oct 2007, 19:36

Something we don't hear everyday, congratulations indeed.

In the era of Sabena a lot was possible, Bart

Don't think that it is possible now, could be off course.

Regards,

EPO · Post by **EPO** » 12 Oct 2007, 19:39

plane OO-SFM
On the birth papers, the coördinates are written down.
Daniëlla is the name of a crew member.

Cool that there is some good news.

Telspace · Post by **Telspace** » 12 Oct 2007, 20:01

don't know this will be the case now but in the Sabena era a baby born on board could fly his/her entire life for free!...

Big deal ! Sabena is dead, and SnBA might follow one day....

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 12 Oct 2007, 20:17

Belgian radio news had it that the mother carried a declaration from a Congolese doctor, stating she was 26 weeks pregnant. Wasn't 40 weeks the normal time till birth?

Anyway, congratulations to all concerned (except perhaps the said doctor...) , not the least the crew! I understand the baby was named after the first officer.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 12 Oct 2007, 20:30

jan_olieslagers wrote:Belgian radio news had it that the mother carried a declaration from a Congolese doctor, stating she was 26 weeks pregnant. Wasn't 40 weeks the normal time till birth?

Anyway, congratulations to all concerned (except perhaps the said doctor...) , not the least the crew! I understand the baby was named after the first officer.

Actually, a Congolese doctor (probably a local Sangoma) has given the passenger a certificate that she was only 26 weeks. Normal time is indeed 40 weeks, and Brussels Airlines allows flying till 36 weeks.

Charlie Roy · Post by **Charlie Roy** » 13 Oct 2007, 12:56

Maybe the doctor gave her said certificate 14 weeks ago

She was probably early in any case, but was definitely further gone than 26 weeks!

So what nationality has the baby? Can the mother choose?

BigJets · Post by **BigJets** » 13 Oct 2007, 14:59

Is this the new way to improve load factors?

8)

Ducatibiker · Post by **Ducatibiker** » 13 Oct 2007, 18:24

After b.flex, b.light...b.Ab

funki · Post by **funki** » 13 Oct 2007, 18:44

Charlie Roy wrote:So what nationality has the baby? Can the mother choose?

from the "UN's Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness"

Article 3.
(...)For the purpose of determining the obligations of Contracting States under this Convention, birth on a ship or in an aircraft shall be deemed to have taken place in the territory of the State whose flag the ship flies or in the territory of the State in which the aircraft is registered, as the case may be....
->so Belgian nationality...maybe dual if it's allowed in D.R.Congo

jan_olieslagers · Post by **jan_olieslagers** » 13 Oct 2007, 19:03

Excuse me for some off-topic laughter... but it's only afterthoughts on earlier replies...

funki wrote:Belgian nationality...maybe dual if it's allowed in D.R.Congo

Hmm. Shouldn't that read "if that can be arranged" or "if she can raise sufficient cash" ?

BigJets wrote:Is this the new way to improve load factors?

LOL!

Ducatibiker wrote:After b.flex, b.light...b.Ab

ROTFL!!!!

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 14 Oct 2007, 02:04

funki wrote:
Charlie Roy wrote:So what nationality has the baby? Can the mother choose?
from the "UN's Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness"

Article 3.
(...)For the purpose of determining the obligations of Contracting States under this Convention, birth on a ship or in an aircraft shall be deemed to have taken place in the territory of the State whose flag the ship flies or in the territory of the State in which the aircraft is registered, as the case may be....
->so Belgian nationality...maybe dual if it's allowed in D.R.Congo

1. The birth certificate will indeed state that baby Daniella was born in Belgium. Could be place of birth is Zaventem (=BRU) or Brussels, don't know.

2. Baby Daniella will not automaticly get Belgian nationality, as that's not linked to the place of birth. Daniella will only get Belgian nationality if one of her parents is Belgian, lives here, if Daniella is also going live here, etc. For those who want to know the details (sorry, I've only found this link in Dutch): http://www.vmc.be/vreemdelingenrecht/wegwijs.aspx?id=88

- - -

The main issue in this story, in my opinion, is that a Doctor of Medicine has delivered a false certificate. A doctor indeed can see the difference between a pregnancy of 26 six weeks and one of 40 weeks, even without computer or monitoring assitance. But then, who cares in a country were everything is possible for a few banknotes...

regi · Post by **regi** » 15 Oct 2007, 00:23

LX-LGX: right!
I was almost shocked to read the other person's conclusion. It is not because you are born on a Belgian plane or ship that you get Belgian citizenship ( but there are countries who have that legislation, is it not the UK? Don't know )
This baby does also not have a visum btw.
But I assume that these details are arranged because the mother certainly has a visum for Shengen countries and or is a belgian resident, or has even a dual belgian citizenship. Otherwise she could not have boarded - I assume.
The baby will get the nationality of the father, if the father is married to the mother. If not, the parents had to register the recognition/ acceptance of parenthood before the birth at a local administration in Belgium, or they have up to 8 days after the birth.
If the father is not known the baby gets the name and nationality of the mother.
I think that there will be not too many problems at Belgian Side. But I can imagine that there will be problems if this baby later has to enter the ROC.
Well, some money wil have to be transfered.

Charlie Roy · Post by **Charlie Roy** » 15 Oct 2007, 00:44

I'm still not convinced any of ye know for sure the answer to the nationality question.

This didn't help either:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-birth.htm

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 15 Oct 2007, 01:08

Actually it's the captain's call, according to ICAO.

If a baby of which the parents are from country A and B, is born on a regular passenger flight between country C and D, on a plane registered in country E, when overflying country F, unless local laws permit, the captain will have the authority of choosing the place of birth between C, D, E and F.
If local laws permit, the child can request a nationality within A to F.

Stella_Caeli · Post by **Stella_Caeli** » 15 Oct 2007, 06:18

Charlie Roy wrote:I'm still not convinced any of ye know for sure the answer to the nationality question.

This didn't help either:
http://people.howstuffworks.com/air-birth.htm

It is as explained above, the child is officially born in Belgium, which means that it's just the exact same situation as any child being born in Belgium.

Now, is this child a Belgian citizen because it was born in Belgium?

If one of its parents is a Belgian citizen, then yes.

If not, the answer is complex and can be found here:
http://www.diplomatie.be/en/services/na ... XTID=42491

To round up: nobody here (unless they're informed) can say which nationality or nationalities this child has, as it initially depends on the situation of its parents, which we don't know.

Kind regards,
Sebastian

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 15 Oct 2007, 09:36

Congratulations to the proud parents and welcome to little Daniella!

As far as nationality is concerned, I'm sure they'll be proud to be Congolese over anything else.

On a Belgian note, is that form even legal? It is not written in Dutch or French (or German), also the baby doesn't seem to have chosen a language - which could soon put her without nationality at all since she wouldn't become either a Flemish or a (residual) Belgian (or other) citizen. Spare the parents and child that mess and let's hope they're either both Congolese or French.

Edit: Ah, sorry, I see the form is in French! So will she be a Brussels or a Walloon citizen?