Brussels Airlines future short-haul fleet

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 11 Oct 2007, 01:57

With very strong rumours that B.air will replace its Avro's by Embraer E-jets or Sukhoi SSJ's from 2009, I'd like to attract your attention on another important project:

The Mitsubishi Regional Jet (MRJ) also refered to as the mini-dreamliner will feature unmatched efficiencies in its class thanks to enhanced use of composites.

Mitsubishi is involved in the production of composite parts for the Dreamliner.

EIS is expected for 2012, which is a bit late for B.Air.

I should say I fell in love with this aircraft

For those who are ready for it : http://www.mrj-japan.com/main_e.html

kvanhecke · Post by **kvanhecke** » 11 Oct 2007, 08:12

i don't think they will buy new planes to replace the avro's, it's just to expensive, be realistic.
grz
KVH

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 11 Oct 2007, 09:20

If you had followed the thing a bit, you would have known that we're talking about leasing new planes... Be awaken

After all the debates I think we all know SN can't afford to buy anything ...

Sorry I couldn't resist

I was so proud about this thread, you wasted it all...

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 11 Oct 2007, 10:26

I don't think that regional jets alone will help their bottom-line.

They need either a fleet with a single type/family if they go further down the low-cost path. And I think it's the wrong path because there are much larger players already who will always beat them at cost and be able to spam and kill the market with insane fares.

Or a fleet with a regional jet type/family and a major narrow-body type/family and play the card of being Brussels' niche carrier - with the support of an established carrier and its associated alliance. This is the business plan I would support.

In the meantime, give them time. they can't all be idiots, nor geniuses, and things will come out of there, good and bad.

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 11 Oct 2007, 10:27

Oh, on a sidenote, I don't think it's serious to consider new Russian aircraft without a proven-track record just yet.

LX-LGX · Post by **LX-LGX** » 11 Oct 2007, 10:31

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:If you had followed the thing a bit, you would have known that we're talking about leasing new planes... Be awaken. After all the debates I think we all know SN can't afford to buy anything ... Sorry I couldn't resist: I was so proud about this thread, you wasted it all...

It didn't took long before it would be clear that also this topic was ment to show your anti Brussels Airlines feelings. After all the debates I think we all know SN can't afford to buy anything ... What kind of nonsense is that?! Which debate? You and some fellow anti's telling 100 times they're dead? Brussels Airlines can buy new planes if they want to do so, and they can lease new planes if they want do to so. Because it's a healthy company (making profit each year, enough own assets - eigen vermogen, positive cash flow, no cash problems). And they have the confidence from several banks and financial groups (some of them have even invested in the company). You don't need to have 5 billion euro on your bank account to buy or lease new planes: if you want to buy them, you have to convince the bank you will be able to fulfill your financial obligations towards them. If you want to lease them, you need a Letter of Confidence from a bank and a bank guarantuee.

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:With very strong rumours that B.air will replace its Avro's by Embraer E-jets or Sukhoi SSJ's from 2009...

"Very strong rumours": I prefer a very small proof above very strong rumours.

SN1203 · Post by **SN1203** » 11 Oct 2007, 20:05

LX-LGX wrote:"Very strong rumours": I prefer a very small proof above very strong rumours.

FLY4HOURS.BE can't give you a proof because there is no proof. There might be some spotters around the airport perimeter who are fed up with having to photograph ARJs all the time, but for Brussels Airlines the ARJ is and remains a good, reliable, comfortable and relatively cheap aircraft to operate.

That's why SN's recent announcement to expand the fleet with three B737/A32S aircraft is such a smart move: on certain routes/flights, they are suffering due to lack of capacity. Replacing the BAe146 with 150 seater aircraft will lead to an optimized utilization of capacity: high density routes where the Avro is too small will get more capacity, and some of the longer stretches will see a significant reduction in the cost per seat (leading to a more agressive pricing as the flight needs to be filled, which is good for the passenger as you get cheaper fares, and good for the airline because you can maintain or improve your revenues, and you can increase your market share).

The Avro is doing a good job and will remain the backbone of the fleet. Routes with a longer flighttime and shorthaul high-density routes will get a much better suited B737 or A32S. There will also be more flexibility to upgrade ARJ operated services to 150-seaters on an ad-hoc base (if the demand is higher than anticipated, and if it is possible within the operational limits). Additional 150-seaters might also allow the airline to open new routes for which there is currently no 150-seater capacity available.

Everything else you get to read here on a daily basis about imminent fleet replacements, old and unreliable Avro's... is only hearsay and not backed up by facts.

brussels airlines · Post by **brussels airlines** » 11 Oct 2007, 20:17

This is what I know:
-In 2010-2011 Brussels Airlines HAVE to replace their Avro/Boeing 737 fleet (don't know about the Airbusses)
-Philippe Vander Putten, CEO, said in an interview with atwonline.com that next summer (2008) an order will be maid. This is what he said about the types:

*1 type regional jet (possibly the Sukhoi Superjet 100 ) or the Embrear (an Embrear 175 was a few years ago already in Brussels for a presentation to SNBA)

*For Midhaul AND longhaul, they will chose 1 type (Airbus or Boeing).

My guess is that if they chose now for 3 A32S , they will also do in 2008.

FlightMate · Post by **FlightMate** » 11 Oct 2007, 21:01

I guess they won't go with the 3 A320's, as it appears it's quite hard to find some on the market nowadays.

Indeed if they want to lease another type at the end of AVRO's leasing contract (2010-2011), they would need to pass the order now, or it will be too late.

But they could as well continue with the Avro's as the lease price would be even cheaper than it is now...

First problem: find out which path the company will follow by 2010-2011 (low cost or full service airline again) and study the network and capacity needs.

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 12 Oct 2007, 12:19

I have to repeat it is a disappointment to hear such nonsense from an airline CEO about having a single type to cover both medium and long haul.

Sure, if you are an airline flying BRU-DKR, BRU-FIH and BRU-JNB, the sentence does make sense (if you remove it from the implied context of using only a regional type for all short haul ops) as you might get 787s that can cover both needs. But if you're talking about an airline that does BRU-AGP, BRU-ATH and BRU-FIH, there cannot be talk of using a single type to cover those needs. I don't seriously think that he means they operate e.g. 787's to AGP or ATH, nor 737s to FIH.

SN needs 3 types in all cases (that is hybrid low-cost or full service): a regional jet, a narrow body, and a wide body.

Or maybe he's thinking of the A310 and 767

teach · Post by **teach** » 12 Oct 2007, 18:11

I have to repeat it is a disappointment to hear such nonsense from an airline CEO about having a single type to cover both medium and long haul.

I think it's pretty clear he meant one manufacturer, hence the choice between 'Airbus and Boeing', and not 'one type' as in 'A320 or 737'

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 12 Oct 2007, 21:08

They would be better getting shot of the old B737's that I saw at LIS last week and replace them with something a bit newer for a start. Get some A320 series and get rid of the older planes. I like Avros but they aren't the most efficient either....I like the E90's at AF Regional but have no idea how efficient they are!

brussels airlines · Post by **brussels airlines** » 12 Oct 2007, 22:27

Well this is were the topic is about: FLEET RENEWING

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 12 Oct 2007, 23:31

Myanmair Airways has gone bankrupt, hey have 1 B738...

A good opportunity for B.air if they're fast...

edit: never mind it's already gone...a while ago.

spotter1102 · Post by **spotter1102** » 12 Oct 2007, 23:33

FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:Myanmair Airways has gone bankrupt, hey have 1 B738...

Bankcrupt today ?

Sparrow · Post by **Sparrow** » 12 Oct 2007, 23:45

spotter1102 wrote:
FLY4HOURS.BE wrote:Myanmair Airways has gone bankrupt, hey have 1 B738...

Bankcrupt today ?

Yep, you can find an article on luchtvaart.nl (only in dutch)

chunk wrote:They would be better getting shot of the old B737's that I saw at LIS last week and replace them with something a bit newer for a start. Get some A320 series and get rid of the older planes. I like Avros but they aren't the most efficient either....I like the E90's at AF Regional but have no idea how efficient they are!

I find ERJ-190 also pretty nice. Look also to AC, AF, AY and B6.

Maybe a fleet of ERJ-190, A320, A333 for SN.

Kind regards
Bavo

Air Key West · Post by **Air Key West** » 13 Oct 2007, 21:23

To Fly4hours : thanks for sharing the nice Mitsubishi pictures with us.
Seems there is going to be more and more competition on the medium size medium haul aircraft market (Bombardier Canadair, Embraer, Sukhoi, Mitsubishi,... and the Chinese have also announced a regional aircraft...).

Aviation24.be

Brussels Airlines future short-haul fleet

Brussels Airlines future short-haul fleet

1 type for medium and long haul at SN? :-)