easyJet and Wizz Air to charge for luggage

[sn26567]

From 1 October 2007 EasyJet will begin charging all passengers who check in bags £2 (€3) per flight sector, up to the maximum total hold baggage weight of 20kg per person.

From 27 October Wizz Air will add a fee of £2.50 per bag at the time of the initial booking or £5 per bag if paid later.

Details from ABTN

[C_J]

'Testaankoop' won't be happy!

[fokker_f27]

I wonder where they got the idea from...

http://ask.skybus.com/about/rules-of-flying.shtml

[FlyA330]

Ryanair does the same... and it costs 12 Euro / piece...

[airazurxtror]

Ryanair does the same... and it costs 12 Euro / piece...

Only 6 euros if booked on www.ryanair.com
And the cabin baggage allowance is rather large.

[FlyA330]

You are correct...it was for a 2 way ticket

[stefanel]

Ryanair does the same... and it costs 12 Euro / piece...

Only 6 euros if booked on www.ryanair.com
And the cabin baggage allowance is rather large.

And 12 at the airport...
I agree the cabin piece of luggage allowance is ok but the problem is that with this stupid EU rule you cannot take anything that contains more than 100ml which means no cream, no wine or beer bottle that you wish to buy abroad (at the much cheaper supermarkets than the so-called free tax) so it cancels the benefits of this allowance...

[Air Key West]

Low cost carriers, for those who had not noticed yet, are very goog at luring pax with an initially low fare. As you go along booking, the "fare" increases with all kinds of surcharges (which upset Testaankoop/Testaschat), and at the end of your travel when you have paid for checking in luggage, being allowed first on board, snacks and drinks, you realize that very often you have not paid less than if you had flown with a traditional carrier taking you maybe from an airport closer to home and at least not claiming to take you from Brussels when it is Charleroi (another province) to, for instance Barcelona when it is Gerona (also another province). How long are these guys going to get away with half truths ?

[Ozzie1969]

Low cost carriers, for those who had not noticed yet, are very goog at luring pax with an initially low fare. As you go along booking, the "fare" increases with all kinds of surcharges (which upset Testaankoop/Testaschat), and at the end of your travel when you have paid for checking in luggage, being allowed first on board, snacks and drinks, you realize that very often you have not paid less than if you had flown with a traditional carrier taking you maybe from an airport closer to home and at least not claiming to take you from Brussels when it is Charleroi (another province) to, for instance Barcelona when it is Gerona (also another province). How long are these guys going to get away with half truths ?

I did a simple test yesterday, comparing the prices charged by EasyJet and Brussels Airlines respectively for a return flight from Brussels to Geneva in the first week of November. Brussels Airlines came out about 6 euros cheaper, which makes me wonder if Brussels Airlines is really a low-cost airline, or if EasyJet isn't ...

[Air Key West]

It's probably "just" a price war on a route where b.air (in codeshare with LX) used to have a monopoly.

[fcw]

I did a simple test yesterday, comparing the prices charged by EasyJet and Brussels Airlines respectively for a return flight from Brussels to Geneva in the first week of November. Brussels Airlines came out about 6 euros cheaper, which makes me wonder if Brussels Airlines is really a low-cost airline, or if EasyJet isn't ...

Do your test again, but include all taxes, credit card fee for Ezy and Fuel surcharge and booking fee for BruAir and you will see that BruAir is more expensive.

[airazurxtror]

you realize that very often you have not paid less than if you had flown with a traditional carrier taking you maybe from an airport closer to home and at least not claiming to take you from Brussels when it is Charleroi (another province) to, for instance Barcelona when it is Gerona (also another province). How long are these guys going to get away with half truths ?

Customers of LCC are not feeble-minded and can read and understand what appears on the screen when they buy a ticket; even if they were taken unaware the first time, they will know on their second booking exactly where they stand. The full price is always given before the customer is committed to buy. Speaking of "half-thruth is dishonest.

For example, there was an offer by Ryanair in "Le Soir" this morning.
It says (I translate in English):
- London (Stansted), Milan (Bergamo), Pau (Pyrénées) : 10 euros
- taxes and fees included
- from 30-10-07
- booking until 23-08-07
- Credit card fee 3 euros per pax per flight
I don't see where there are "half-truth" in that.

[Air Key West]

The half truth with Ryan is that the fare does not include their fee for checked luggage. Any piece of checked luggage will cost you an additional 6 euros (up to 15 kg, all pieces of checked luggage together may not exceed 15 kg, and above these 15 kg, you pay 8 euros for each additional kilo of "excess" luggage). If you don't read every line on their web site carefully, including their Terms and Conditions on which yo have to click for them to appear, you're in for a few surprises. With traditional airlines a 20kg luggage allowance is still included in the fare.
And I couldn't find a 10 euros fare on 01 NOV from Charleroi to Stanted (lowest fare I found at time of checking : 16 euros, lchacked lugage not included). Of course, there will be a few seats at 10 euros on other days, but how many ?
Another half truth is they will claim to fly you from Brussels, although they put Charleroi between brackets, but Brussels appears first : Brussels (Charleroi) to, for insatnce, Barcelona (Reus), Reus being actually if I remember well the airport of Tarragona, n ot Barcelona.

[LX-LGX]

Customers of LCC are not feeble-minded and can read and understand what appears on the screen when they buy a ticket; even if they were taken unaware the first time, they will know on their second booking exactly where they stand. The full price is always given before the customer is committed to buy. Speaking of "half-thruth is dishonest. For example, there was an offer by Ryanair in "Le Soir" this morning.
It says (I translate in English):
- London (Stansted), Milan (Bergamo), Pau (Pyrénées) : 10 euros
- taxes and fees included
- from 30-10-07
- booking until 23-08-07
- Credit card fee 3 euros per pax per flight
I don't see where there are "half-truth" in that.

The fact that Ryanair is selling very cheap tickets does not allow them not to respect the Belgian law. Not for the first ticket, not for the second ticket (there are always people who are first time buyers).

In the advertisement in Le Soir, they mention "taxes included". That's just because they know that inspectors of Economic Affairs also read newspapers. I've just went on their booking site for Belgium, and it's indeed illegal practice. Thus more serious then half-truth".

When I ask for this cheap flight to Stansted, I get this (before I get a first rate): "Dit zijn de vluchten en prijzen die beschikbaar zijn op de gewenste datum(s). De prijzen zijn exclusief belasting, toeslagen en kosten." Translated, as correct as possible: "These are the flights and the prices, available for the requested date(s). The prices exclude tax, surcharges and costs".

The Belgian Consumer Law from 14 July 1991 applies. It's one of the most used laws in court cases for consumer complaints, and called in full "Wet betreffende de handelspraktijken en de voorlichting en bescherming van de consument". In French, it's the "loi sur les pratiques du commerce et sur l'information et la protection du consommateur". In English, it means something like "law on trade practices and information & protection of the consumer". Article 3 from this law is very clear: "De aangeduide prijs of het aangeduide tarief moet de door de consument te betalen totale prijs of het totale tarief zijn, waaronder is begrepen: de belasting over de toegevoegde waarde, alle overige taksen en de kosten van alle diensten die door de consument verplicht moeten worden bijbetaald." Translated: "prices/rates/tariffs that are announced must be included of VAT, all other taxes and surcharges from all services that are compulsary for the consumer."

The full price indeed is not given before the customer is committed to buy, as -with all respect- airazurxtror mentions in the above post: the final price (including taxes) is only given just before one has to give his credit card details. Belgian law says it's must be shown at first sight. It's this law that obliges car dealers to give you the final price, VAT included. The olders ones here (including myself) still know that, 25 years ago, cars were sold without tax.

Airport taxes must be included at any moment. Not when you're in the final stage of the booking: it must be shown from the first click in the booking module. Edit LX-LGX after posting: that means: these taxes must always be included in the total fare that's shown, but they can be explained through plain text or a pop-up.

Security taxes, government levy, anti-terrorism tax and whatever is called as tax or levy must also be included in rates you see at first sight.

Credit card fee must be included with Ryanair, as it's the only payment Ryanair accepts. So it's compulsary with Ryanair.

Luggage fee must not be included, as you are not obliged to take any luggage with you.

Insurance fee must not be included, if it's not marked automaticly as included.

Booking fee must be included (contrary to the travel agency booking fee because that's subject to a special law (KB/AR).

Conclusion: Ryanair cheats. But they know that the inspectors from Economic Affairs are bureaucrats, not technocrats. So they don't understand the complaints (*) from Test-Aankoop/Test-Achats, trade organisations and civilians.

(*) complaints are not only against Ryanair, but they the worst student from the class, with their 1-euro-tickets.

[airazurxtror]

The full price indeed is not given before the customer is committed to buy, as -with all respect- airazurxtror mentions in the above post: the final price (including taxes) is only given just before one has to give his credit card details. Belgian law says it's must be shown at first sight.

Ryanair, but they the worst student from the class, with their 1-euro-tickets.

First, I beg you to consider Ryanair is an Irish company - not a Belgian one.
Then, when you book a flight, if, at the end, the price seems unsatisfactory, you can still cancel the whole deal, no harm done.

I don't see what is wrong with the "one euro ticket". On september 26, to be accurate, I shall fly CRL-STN and back, having paid 0,02 euro all included. Actually, I paid 6,02 euros because I wanted to use the web-checking (which is not at all mandatory but allow you to be at the gate only 30 min before departure, instead of 40 min at the check-in desk).

The mean price I pay for a return ticket on Ryanair is 45 euros. In my opinion, say Rome at 45 euros return, it's cheap at the price. Anybody is free to think otherwise.

[fcw]

LX, why don't you mention BruAir , they do exactly the same as FR. They even automatically include a cancellation insurance: cost 5€ to pay back 4€ if you cancel...
You should also mention Easy being one of the best students with all inclusive prices.

[LX-LGX]

First, I beg you to consider Ryanair is an Irish company - not a Belgian one.

In Belgium, Belgian laws apply. Also for Irish companies doing business here. I really hope we don't disagree on this.

Then, when you book a flight, if, at the end, the price seems unsatisfactory, you can still cancel the whole deal, no harm done.

Yes, but that's not relevant here. This consumer law states that companies / traders / shops have to announce the final and total selling price in every announcement, advert, publication, internet offer, .... If Ryanair doens't agree with this, they can ask the Raad van State / Conseil D'Etat (a Belgian institutional court) to amend this law for their tickets. This law not only protects consumers from spending much more compared to their first thoughts, it also protects competition traders who do respect the law.

I don't see what is wrong with the "one euro ticket". On september 26, to be accurate, I shall fly CRL-STN and back, having paid 0,02 euro all included. Actually, I paid 6,02 euros because I wanted to use the web-checking (which is not at all mandatory but allow you to be at the gate only 30 min before departure, instead of 40 min at the check-in desk).

No! You haven't paid 0,02 euro: you have paid 53,19 euro: you haven't added the 17,79 euro taxes in CRL and the 38,38 euro taxes in STD (plus 6 euro for web-check-in).

Ryanair tells us they can do this zero rate because they hope you will book a car and hotels through their site. My thought: for these 0,01 euro tickets, they specially hope that will have to cancel. Because then, this applies: "... fares, fees or charges are non-refundable. Government taxes may be refunded. Ryanair apply an administration charge per person for tax refund requests." Don't look for the amount from that charge: only they know.

LX, why don't you mention BruAir: they do exactly the same as FR. They even automatically include a cancellation insurance: cost 5€ to pay back 4€ if you cancel...

No, Brussels Airlines is not doing the same as Ryanair, as they include the airport taxes in their offers, adverts, .... I've just done the check: special offer for Milan, 49,99 euro. I went on the booking module: 5 Oct: final price is 54,99 euro, because they also charge me 5 euro reservation costs (which is not allowed, as I mentionned in my previous post). And I've cancelled their insurance offer (also not allowed, as they should have asked me if I wanted it. But then, they've asked me "agree?" - so I've cancelled it). Same applies for Brussels Airlines' Banjul offer: 588,02 euro becomes 603,02 euro. But then: one must admit there's a huge difference between a surcharge of 5 euro's on a ticket of 49,99 or 588,02 euro's, then a surcharge of 53 euro's on a ticket of 0,02 euro.

Anyway, to please you: Brussels Airlines is not fully respecting the law, as they also show me how the total routing price is split up in ticket price and taxes. But they only do this after they've advised me what the total price is, so one can see this as information, not trying to misleading.

You should also mention Easy being one of the best students with all inclusive prices.

Indeed. Stelios says thank you. But then, he is one of the many people in aviation respecting pax.

[airazurxtror]

I don't see what is wrong with the "one euro ticket". On september 26, to be accurate, I shall fly CRL-STN and back, having paid 0,02 euro all included. Actually, I paid 6,02 euros because I wanted to use the web-checking (which is not at all mandatory but allow you to be at the gate only 30 min before departure, instead of 40 min at the check-in desk).

No! You haven't paid 0,02 euro: you have paid 53,19 euro: you haven't added the 17,79 euro taxes in CRL and the 38,38 euro taxes in STD (plus 6 euro for web-check-in).

Yes, I have paid 6,02 euros, drawn from my Visa card, believe it or not.
You call me a liar, I would suggest you be a bit more respectful of others. By throwing insults to everybody who doesn't agree with you, you don't show yourself to be very bright, to say the least.

[LX-LGX]

I don't see what is wrong with the "one euro ticket". On september 26, to be accurate, I shall fly CRL-STN and back, having paid 0,02 euro all included. Actually, I paid 6,02 euros because I wanted to use the web-checking (which is not at all mandatory but allow you to be at the gate only 30 min before departure, instead of 40 min at the check-in desk).

No! You haven't paid 0,02 euro: you have paid 53,19 euro: you haven't added the 17,79 euro taxes in CRL and the 38,38 euro taxes in STD (plus 6 euro for web-check-in).

Yes, I have paid 6,02 euros, drawn from my Visa card, believe it or not.
You call me a liar, I would suggest you be a bit more respectful of others. By throwing insults to everybody who doesn't agree with you, you don't show yourself to be very bright, to say the least.

Calm down please. I've just checked my posts, and I don't see where I've written "you're a liar". So please tell me where it is. What I have said however, is that you haven't mentionned the airport taxes that you will have to pay for your flights. Check your credit card statement from August, and eventually September: they will appear on one of them. 17,79 euro for CRL, and 38,38 for STD. This has nothing to do with agree or disagree: airport taxes are compulsary for all passengers, so it makes your ticket price of 0,02 euro a bit more expensive (but still cheap, off course).

[Charlie Roy]

LX-LGX Ryanair regularly have promotions where they pay all taxes and charges and it does literally only cost you 2 cent for a return flight.

They also frequently have a promotion where your flight will cost a total of 10 euro irregardless of the normal taxes that would be charged.