American Airlines Single Aisle Replacement

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 10 Mar 2007, 20:36

They are looking to replace 300 of their MD80s.

737 only one mentioned as candidate.

They can't wait for the next generation aircraft.

Alaska did the same thing, decided just too fuel hungry and maint was going up. Not many left in their fleet.

I would guess this is just the first of many moves. US airlines have a lot of old iron to replace.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 10 Mar 2007, 20:46

American Airlines is looking at the 737-800 as a replacement aircraft for their MD fleet. AA also has aging 767-200's which they are looking to replace from what I have read. I see the 787 in AA's future

Post by **Bruspotter** » 10 Mar 2007, 21:29

Hello

That's a hell of a lot planes to replace.

On one side it's a little a pity , because the MD-80 does well on those routes I think and I always like to see it in AA colours (although I've never seen it in real...

).

They're still waiting for the next generation of B737. I would think it was over with new B737 models :s

Can't they just buy the B737-900? It's the newest 737 and the longest. I think it can match the MD-80 for capacity and it has a much bigger range. The seats in a MD-80 a 3-2 and in a B739 3-3.

Best regards: Yannick

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 11 Mar 2007, 03:23

I will be sad to see the MD80 go. I think it is a sexy plane

Stij · Post by **Stij** » 11 Mar 2007, 06:18

It was (is) also a nice plane to fly with... if you're flying on the front rows, because in the back... she's very loud!

Cheers,

Stij

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 11 Mar 2007, 10:47

Stij wrote:It was (is) also a nice plane to fly with... if you're flying on the front rows, because in the back... she's very loud! Cheers,
Stij

So was the Caravelle, Stij.... but the concept seems no longer actual.
Fact is that their business seats on the MD80 have the same dimensions as on their B777: 18 x 33-34 (Seat width x pitch) and that is always more than what you get in a B737 in the USA, usually 17 x 31-34.
It will not be easy to beat the C-class comfort of the MD80.
Only US Airways can match that with their A320: 18 x 31-33.
One inch is about 2.5cm.

BrightCedars · Post by **BrightCedars** » 12 Mar 2007, 11:08

I don't think AA would replace the whole 300 1 for 1 with a 737.

My guess is they'll order a large quantity of 737s and plan to be part of the replacement product's launch.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 12 Mar 2007, 14:23

Douglas was always known for building rugged and long lasting airplanes. Given the very large number (1200+) of MD-80 series (MD-80, 81, 82, 83, 87, 88, etc.) produced, I wonder why someone has not designed and certificated an improved model using improved engines (CFM-56, for example) for lower fuel useage.

At $2.50 per gallon for fuel, and another 10+ years of service (for airframes in good shape), the modification costs would probably be recouped in 3-4 years.

Yes, it would cost a lot of money, but could find a market in the case of many smaller airlines for whom the acquisition costs for new aircraft are prohibitive. The cost of the design, testing, certifiaction and conversion, would be amortized over the large number of airicraft that are available for conversion (unless I am overestimating the demand).

Remember how the DC-8 received a reprieve when about 200 or so were converted to CFM-56 (DC-8 Super 70 series).

Comments?

Airmotive · Post by **Airmotive** » 12 Mar 2007, 19:54

Several years ago, Rolls-Royce approached AA with a proposal to re-engine their entire MD fleet with the BR715. Although the BR had some initial growing pains, it was (and is) a strong, efficient power plant - ESPECIALLY when compared to the JT8D.

AA, cash-poor, expense-heavy and wallowing in cheap fuel, could not make a business case for re-engining. Rather short-sighted. Now they're forced to make a large equipment acquisition at the bottom of a technology cycle. The 737 will be a generation old by the time AA receives their full order, but the JT8Ds are just too thirsty (for both fuel and maintenance) to keep for another 10-12 years.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 13 Mar 2007, 04:57

The other part of the equation is the wing. The 737NG is amazing.

Last summer, I flew a 737-400, flow straightness and fences on engine, all over the wings.

Coming back, 737-800, not one flow straightener, fence etc. Absolutely clean. They did an incredible job there.

That’s the reason its more fuel efficient than the A320.

Yep, A320 has a better newer fuselage, but not that much wider, and its in the wing and engines you get the fuel savings.

They talked about re-engine of 727 years back, just not worth it for an old airframe.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 13 Mar 2007, 20:46

UPS re-engined their 727's with RR Speys and got a large decrease in fuel consumption and lower noise. The re-engined airplane has larger intakes which resulted in a "bulged" center inlet. See:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0906226

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0 ... &photo_nr=

http://www.community.ups.com/environment/fleet/air.html

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 13 Mar 2007, 20:56

Whoops! I said UPS re-engined their 727's with RR Spays's. I meant RR Tay's which have a higher bi-pass ratio than the PW JT-8D's, hence the need for more air and a larger inlet.

EBAW_flyer · Post by **EBAW_flyer** » 14 Mar 2007, 00:43

That’s the reason its more fuel efficient than the A320.

Do you have any proof of that? I am interested to compare the 2 models, but I don't have any technical info of the 737.

And compare the A320 wing to the 737(NG) wing; the 737 still had vortex generators on the wing, while the 320 wing doesn't need it:

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1149980/L/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1181077/L/

achace · Post by **achace** » 14 Mar 2007, 01:38

The MD 80's are very well built with lots of life.

I think a good business case for the CFM56 or V2500 could be made which would allow AA and others to hang on until the next generation appears.

Cheers
Achace

website-info · Post by **website-info** » 14 Mar 2007, 16:22

American Airlines has forty-seven Boeing 737-800s on order which are not due for delivery until 2013. It is expected that the delivery date of these will be brought forward and up to another fifty ordered. At present American Airlines operates two hundred and ninety-nine MD80s, with an average fleet age of nearly seventeen years. The oldest aircraft is nearly twenty-four years old and the youngest seven years.

The majority of the MD80s are expected to be replaced by the successor to the 737NG family, for which it is thought that American Airlines will be one of the launch customers. The successor to the 737NG is at least two years away from launch with the first of a family of airplanes entering service in the 2014 to 2015 timeframe.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 14 Mar 2007, 17:49

I think i read somewhere that American Airlines was studying putting winglets on thier MD 80 fleet to extend the life of the plane in the fleet by making it more fuel efficient. Any word on that?

TEJAVIA · Post by **TEJAVIA** » 15 Mar 2007, 00:36

Re"Douglas was always known for building rugged and long lasting airplanes. "

Indeed! Check out our CAF squadron's C-47: http://www.highlandlakessquadron.org

I have worked on AA's MD-80's for a long time and will miss them when they go away. The plane is well designed and simple to repair.

TEJAVIA · Post by **TEJAVIA** » 15 Mar 2007, 00:41

TexasGuy wrote:I think i read somewhere that American Airlines was studying putting winglets on thier MD 80 fleet to extend the life of the plane in the fleet by making it more fuel efficient. Any word on that?

Not going to happen. When AA chooses 737 it will narrow the spares inventory, gain leaner burning engines, etc.

BBQ: Would you like a nice bottle of my favorite sauce? You can order it online: http://www.saltlickbbq.com/

TEJAVIA · Post by **TEJAVIA** » 15 Mar 2007, 00:48

http://www.highlandlakessquadron.com/ I got it wrong first time, won't happen again sir.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 15 Mar 2007, 08:31

TEJAVIA wrote:Re"Douglas was always known for building rugged and long lasting airplanes. "

Indeed! Check out our CAF squadron's C-47: http://www.highlandlakessquadron.org

I have worked on AA's MD-80's for a long time and will miss them when they go away. The plane is well designed and simple to repair.

When I worked for the US Forest Service during college summers, wwe used to fly C-47's into very rugged mountain landing strips that had been hacked into the sides of mountians. The strips included:

Soldier Bar - http://www.mountainflying.com/soldier6.htm

Mile High - http://www.mountainflying.com/milehi2.htm

The C-47 was not always used; sometimes a C-45 or Ford Tri-Motor was used due to lesser landing requirements.

The C-47 was a real rugged workhorse and is sitll being used for these flights, although they have been converted to turbo-prop for greater power and reliability.

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American Airlines Single Aisle Replacement

American Airlines Single Aisle Replacement

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