Airbus A350XWBC anouncement ?????

[bits44]

Airbus a350XWBC version six may be announced soon:


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

[RC20]

Well it looks like they may have finally figured it out!

Now all they have to do is make it happen.

It will be interesting to see if they stay where they are target wise, or move it up or down the scale. (directly compete with the 787, split the difference between the 787 and 777, or target the 777).

I say that because the lower 777 market is thin, it’s the specialty planes that are selling there (LR and freighter). Its not only a matter of a good aircraft, its in the right market segment as well.

If Boeing has it right, you need three aircraft through that range, not two . Of course you can make the strategic decision to not compete in a segment, which is what the current A350 passenger target area looks to do.

More delays of course, as any engineering done on the fuselage, is (pardon a pun) out the window. Wing fuselage interface another major area, as well as the bleed air versus electric system decision.

Still to be fought is the A380 completion, the A400, as well as does Airbus exist to create jobs of be a true commercial enterprise

[Ruscoe]

Still to be fought is the A380 completion, the A400, as well as does Airbus exist to create jobs of be a true commercial enterprise

This is the other problem. Airbus may be finally coming up with the right aircraft, although incorrectly positioned. IMO should attack the 787 from below, not the top. How much 777 market will there be in 2014?

However to get to the point, unless the stucture of EADS changes and it has a broad shareholder base who freely elect the Board, and the direct political influence is removed, then Airbus is just waiting for the next disaster to happen.

[CX]

Nothing seemed to have changed apart from the fact there the fuselage is now a 50% carbon fibre structure.. I am surprised the article still says a delivery date in 2013, but I hope it is true!
As for the size, according to the article nothing has changed from the A350XWB plan, with the A358 359 and 3510. But i mean if they want to cross the 777 market the A350-1000 must be bigger, they are essentially replacing the A340-600 here. However with the lighter structure proposed(rumoured) now I think Airbus can actually make a smaller A350 later on to replace the A332 and take on the 787-3 and 8. I guess one of the reasons why Airbus couldn't take on the 787 diretly at the beginning was because if you make your Al-Li the same size as Boeing's carbon fibre, they will immediately appear uncompetitive. BUt if they do build a composite A350 then it is a different story.

[TexasGuy]

I just wish they get on with it!!! Im excited about the news and want the project to move forward! ;););)


...

[RC20]

Nothing seemed to have changed apart from the fact there the fuselage is now a 50% carbon fibre structure.. I am surprised the article still says a delivery date in 2013, but I hope it is true!
As for the size, according to the article nothing has changed from the A350XWB plan, with the A358 359 and 3510. But i mean if they want to cross the 777 market the A350-1000 must be bigger, they are essentially replacing the A340-600 here. However with the lighter structure proposed(rumoured) now I think Airbus can actually make a smaller A350 later on to replace the A332 and take on the 787-3 and 8. I guess one of the reasons why Airbus couldn't take on the 787 diretly at the beginning was because if you make your Al-Li the same size as Boeing's carbon fibre, they will immediately appear uncompetitive. BUt if they do build a composite A350 then it is a different story.

Its not just the material, it’s the entire weight of the structure, what it has to support, and as importantly, the aerodynamics that go with all of it.

The practicable result is that each design has a sweet spot, where its as economical as it can get, for pax count and efficiency. A good design can stretch that out, where the loss of efficiency is low enough, that you can stretch it (or shrink it).

The problem with the A380 (in so far as competition with the 747 is concerned) is that its really designed to haul a lot more people. So, a great deal of weight is wasted, as its not needed for the existing structure, but has to be there for the stretched version.

Note in all this, Boeing never made a 777-100, though one was at least conceptually there. It just did not garner support, as it was too far off the baseline.

The bottom line is that if Airbus designs the A350 to cover that upper range, it will not be nearly as efficient at the lower range as the 787. Boeing felt rightly or wrongly, that there was a huge demand for a targeted 250 pax aircraft. Part of that is based on replacing the DC10, the 767, A300/310, as well as stretching out and getting to the A330. So far it looks like they are right (as the bells tolled almost immediately on the A330).

However, its (pardon a pun) a stretch to get to the 777-200 segment, and it cannot be taken any further (and even that there is some loss in distance, but it looks to be agreeable to those interested for what it gets them).

The 737 has hit that limit as well. It obviously would be nice to get a bit more out of it to reach the 757 ranges (same fuselages), but they cannot get there with the existing wing and tail.

Airbus needs 7 years to develop an aircraft. That’s under normal circumstances. This is a huge change from a company that recently stated that composites were not ready to that application. That means 2014 at best, and probably 2015 or 2016.

[CX]

With everything still on paper, it is probably no big issue to stretch the -1000 by a few rows more, but I understand your point about as it gets smaller, you just have wasted supports..

I dont' know but Airbus certainly realises there is a market for the A330 (and thus 783/788) range, and how will they find a reason to simply leave that market for Boeing when the A330 is kind of their bread and butter now?

[fleabyte]

Will not fly for an airline until 2015 - gives the 777 some breathing room, look at what TAM just ordered.

[CX]

Will not fly for an airline until 2015 - gives the 777 some breathing room, look at what TAM just ordered.

Yeah but what can they do? And as more 773s enter service, the less will be demanded as most airlines already operate 773s for their long haul routes, and there is minimal A346s to be replaced (if they ever will be) by the 773ERs. Qatar/Ethiad/Thai etc seems to be pretty happy with their A345s and A346s.

[boeing797]

The program will cost 12 bln; I wonder how Airbus will raise the fund for A350. I guess the Euro governments will offer launch aid which will be bad for Boeing since Airbus will develope a great plane and offer good discount to customers. When Airbus first decided to revamp A330 I kept thinking it would have been good for Boeing if Boeing had conceded some market share to this design;let Airbus grab some good orders for the program to launch, and few years later Boeing could regain the market share easily with the more superior B787. Now that Boeing puts Airbus in a so disadvantage position that it is very likely Euro government will rush to rescue Airbus. With the launch aid, I guess the new designed A350 will kill B777, effectively compete with B787 and this is a very smart move by Airbus. They want to hold B787 and kill B777 with one design. The new design may not be superior than B787 but good enough to grab some good market share to hold Boeing in that market;but it will definitely kill B777 since they will use 50% composite in the airframe. So if this becomes true what will Boeing respond? A revamp B777 cannot compete with A350. If Boeing want to protect that market they has to design a replacement of B777, at that time Airbus can plot a next move to replace A320 before Boeing.

Just my 2 cents

[smokejumper]

Just to restate what has aleardy been said and add my opinion.

Airbus can not cover the entire range of the 777 and 787 offerings, but they can pick out a segment that overlaps the two Boeing planes; they just have to choose what segment they want to compete with.

By 2015 (A350XWB probable introduction), the 777 will be 20 years old and ready for replacement. I believe that Boeing will not be caught napping this time and will have an A350XWB killer in the offering stage!

[bits44]

Does this sound familier!

Its doubtful that any decision on the A350XWB will be made any time soon, stay tuned, this is beginning to sound like its on, its off, its on again, no maybe its off, how can they expect to regain any confidence from their customers with this kind of silliness.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/061105/137/69366.html

[cageyjames]

*sigh*

I was just getting excited. Not specifically about the A350, but the simple fact that maybe people might stop wondering what US would do with their order. Frankly at this point, I'd just assume convert the darn things into 332s and 336s and move on with our lives.

[CX]

Does this sound familier!

Its doubtful that any decision on the A350XWB will be made any time soon, stay tuned, this is beginning to sound like its on, its off, its on again, no maybe its off, how can they expect to regain any confidence from their customers with this kind of silliness.

http://in.news.yahoo.com/061105/137/69366.html

Well no one can stop rumours, their customers should not be affected by rumours, all they want to know is what Airbus will announce.

Let's see what happens, but at this stage I don't think Airbus can back off and just build a A336, it would've worked if it was to enter service soon but this obviously will not happen.. i mean what is the point to build a plane that is inferior and enter service later than its rival?

[smacDC-10]

I agree that trying to capture both the 777 and 787 with one plane is the wrong plan. They need a a340 replacement that will counter any future revision of the 777. Airbus is in deep dog poop IMO.

[CX]

I agree that trying to capture both the 777 and 787 with one plane is the wrong plan. They need a a340 replacement that will counter any future revision of the 777. Airbus is in deep dog poop IMO.

Well not really, they plan to have a -1000 that will have 350 seats just 2 years after the -800 and -900 is launched, and i see no reason why they won't stretch it if they need to, and probably they'll design it so that they can stretch it without too much hassle..
Surely enough though, with their latest "known" plans, they cannot replace the A330, and they will need to do so.

[David747]

What is the possibility of Airbus launching two new airplanes to compete with the 787 and 777, and use that as replacements for the A330 and A340's. A350-800 to 1000 seem to be competitors to the 777, but not to the 787.

[CX]

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... +A380.html

Sorry about the long URL (if it cause problems?)
Anyway it seems like a composite A350 will be announced afterall.. Question is whether any more delays to the 2013 entry-into-service date will be delayed again... if it will, they just have to upgrade the A330 a bit.

[David747]

Nice to see John Leahy continue his war against the 787, in IMO has been a losing battle for himi and Airbus. For a man who said composites on the fuselage could present problems for any airline when it comes to mainting planes mostly made by composites, he is now saying the A350, all composite planes will be easier to fix. Quite an amazing 180 on the part of Mr. Leahy. :laugh:
Anyway, I like to send John Leahy good wishes as well since he had heart surgery, and hope he recovers and comesback to Airbus the entertaining salesman that he is.

[bits44]

Sorry about the long URL (if it cause problems?)

Yep it lengthens the page so you have to side scroll!


tinyurl will shorten it up


I forgot to include this humerous post in the IAG Blog:

http://iagblog.blogspot.com/2006/11/joh ... d-you.html