Polderbaan at AMS closed again

Post by **Bottie** » 15 Aug 2006, 13:33

After a aborted take-off, the polderbaan is closed again. Bad luck last week after the skidded-off KLM B737.

The plane involved was a Kalitta B747-freighter

ehamspotter · Post by **ehamspotter** » 15 Aug 2006, 18:06

Hello;

Wat is that with the Polderbaan??

I found that there happening a lot of accidents

rgds:Jeroen

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 15 Aug 2006, 19:01

The Polderbaan is besides the Kaagbaan a very used runway.

There is nothing wrong with the Polderbaan, the "accident" of today is caused by an airliner not the infrastructure.

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 15 Aug 2006, 19:10

correction to above, it is next to (parallel to) Zwanenburgbaan, the farthest west. It is used pretty intensively for both inbound and outbound flights.

Kalitta planes.. something tells me everytime i see these things (I drive the A9 motorway everyday, which runs at the end of the strip), that these are not the best maintained planes, and are utilized 120%..

since my student work at the airport in the late 90s i have become quet sceptical about such cargo carriers...

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 15 Aug 2006, 21:32

And they are old, I think 35 years. About the maintenance I pass because I have no info about that.

Off topic: would CEO Kalitta not thinking about a "possible" replace of those old planes?

Established02 · Post by **Established02** » 15 Aug 2006, 22:09

Atlantis wrote:And they are old, I think 35 years. About the maintenance I pass because I have no info about that.

Off topic: would CEO Kalitta not thinking about a "possible" replace of those old planes?

I guess K4 would loose one of their competitive advantages by replacing these old planes.

Obviously flying new(er) aircraft would be more fuel efficient and would probably require less maintenance.

However reportedly it's a sellers' market at present. Demand for aircraft is high and so the aircraft sellers can drive up the prices. What would currently be the monthly leasing fee for more modern equipment with a similar capacity? 300.000-400.000$ ? I guess K4 is happy to continue flying these veteran 747's, as long as the fuel and maintenance costs remain considerably lower than the cost of leasing new(er) aircraft.

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 15 Aug 2006, 23:08

Somehow Kalitta reminds me of Tower Air, which was not free of incidents at AMS either...

SkyJet · Post by **SkyJet** » 16 Aug 2006, 00:03

acft involved was N701CK

source : http://www.nieuwsblad.be
Has anybody found any better pictures ?

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 16 Aug 2006, 00:09

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/4828 ... gtuig.html

(dutch only)

Post by **Bottie** » 16 Aug 2006, 00:10

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5792248

and

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5792247

letscruise · Post by **letscruise** » 16 Aug 2006, 09:39

correction to above, it is next to (parallel to) Zwanenburgbaan

Schiphol heeft een banenstelsel met vijf hoofdstart- en landingsbanen:
De Kaagbaan (06-24);
De Zwanenburgbaan (18C-36C);
De Buitenveldertbaan (09-27);
De Aalsmeerbaan (18L-36R);
De Polderbaan (18R-36L).

Daarnaast is er nog de Schiphol-Oostbaan (04-22). Deze korte baan wordt relatief weinig gebruikt

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 16 Aug 2006, 11:43

Did you know that SPL was called Schiphol-les-bains?
Because before it was a large lake. Its original name was 'schiphel' meaning 'ship hell', because many ships mysteriously got lost in the lake, says Wiki....

Military archives reveal that Schiphol was never really planned but was a result of the need in 1915 for a better site for a defence aerodrome near Amsterdam - the first site was too muddy. The War Minister was not enthusiastic - his idea of a military aerodrome was a large field near a farm so that aircraft could be housed in farm buildings! He was adamant that the Air Corps should look for the cheapest option possible and it took the commander-in-chief some time to convince the politician that aircraft required different accommodation from agricultural equipment. In 1916 the military did find a site that was within budget - it was near the parade ground of the Fortress Schiphol and work was completed within a matter of months in order to be ready for the autumn manoeuvres that year. Thus was Schiphol born in 1916, although the intention was that it should be only a reserve base.
Its beginnings, however, were not encouraging in that the landing area was too small, especially in crosswinds.

Try your library for:
Op de drempel van de lucht. Tachtig jaar Schiphol (Den Haag: Sdu, 1996)
Struggle for prominence: Clashing Dutch and British interests on the colonial air routes, 1918-1942, in: Journal of Contemporary History 26(1991)
Look also into this* it gives you many clues as to how airports developped. Also a background of Imperial Airways, one of my favourite aviation themes.
I tend to see Imperial as the basis of commercial aviation.

*look in the notes of this document, it gives a load of links.

Bilboone · Post by **Bilboone** » 16 Aug 2006, 12:01

jelger wrote:Kalitta planes.. something tells me everytime i see these things (I drive the A9 motorway everyday, which runs at the end of the strip), that these are not the best maintained planes, and are utilized 120%..

since my student work at the airport in the late 90s i have become quet sceptical about such cargo carriers...

Why you think these aircrafts are not best maintained ?

I have a bit a wrong feeling about these expresions.

Like I work on Aircrafts, yes indeed some of them are almost 30 years old, I can tell you it's not because you think old aircrafts that ar used a lot, that they are bad maintained. I serviced also one time a Kalita 747 in Brussels, Yes indeed it looks old because its old, I talked to the engineer onboard, that he had most of the time a lot of work on the aircraft. So if he is working a lot on the aircraft, this means its well maintained. If you remember my pictures of the Silverback DC-8, this aircraft had almost no maintenance for sure !

RTO happens almost every day somewhere, also blowing tyres during take-off, this results some time in some heavy damage of flaps/ engines. Some weeks before also a Atlanta 747 had some blown tires during Takeoff.

Kalitta Air had also last year a RTO some where in Russia, pieces of tyre flew through an engine during take-off.

The Lost engine above Michigan was because of a failing part of the aft engine mount, not maintenance !

Here a picture of a Kalita flying with three engines !!
After the found cracks in the engine pylon.So they found the cracks....

There are a lot of other companies that are flying in europe with high used old aircrafts : DAS Air, Gemini , ...
I can ensure you these aircrafts are well maintained.

Nice article about RTO's here

They say in the study that 1 fourth of RTO's is because of failing tyres during Take-off.

EHAM · Post by **EHAM** » 16 Aug 2006, 12:11

jelger wrote:Kalitta planes.. something tells me everytime i see these things (I drive the A9 motorway everyday, which runs at the end of the strip), that these are not the best maintained planes, and are utilized 120%..

Yeah right. Do you really believe these planes get less maintenance than, let's say a 747-400? Which, off course, you can see daily from out of your car driving along the highway

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 16 Aug 2006, 13:29

letscruise wrote:
correction to above, it is next to (parallel to) Zwanenburgbaan

Schiphol heeft een banenstelsel met vijf hoofdstart- en landingsbanen:
De Kaagbaan (06-24);
De Zwanenburgbaan (18C-36C);
De Buitenveldertbaan (09-27);
De Aalsmeerbaan (18L-36R);
De Polderbaan (18R-36L).

Daarnaast is er nog de Schiphol-Oostbaan (04-22). Deze korte baan wordt relatief weinig gebruikt

The original post said:

ehamspotter wrote:The Polderbaan is besides the Kaagbaan a very used runway.

It didn't say they were parallel to eachother, just that they are the most heavily used runways.

jelger · Post by **jelger** » 16 Aug 2006, 18:59

ok, soorry i got your line wrong, and some more people with Dutch as their native language might make the same translational error.

Besides the Kaagbaan the Polderbaan is a very used runway.

or the use of some punctuation might help

The Polderbaan is, besides the Kaagbaan, a very used runway.

as for my critics to Kalitta [and the likes]
I do have to agree i do not have any insight these days anymore. and i do have to admit the picture shown in here is a much neater plane than i recently have seen of them.

However, if i work a lot on my [old, but not wasted] cars it does not guarantee me that i have the same chance of staying without problems like a modern car.

I have seen the planes of Affretair, TMA, Tower Air, and the likes from inside out back then, and that was the bias to my pre-occupation, or better, scepsis. And nothing wrong with some scepsis.

Or are we all saying cheers to Onur Air [not to mention a claimed well-maintained airliner]..?

by the way, is anything known yet about the cause of 2 blown tyres?
metal strips? stones? spikes? or just bad maintenance?