New problems for the Airbus A380

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 22 Jul 2006, 20:21

Just came across this, no confirmation, but maybe another setback

http://www.playfuls.com/news_03568_New_ ... Says_.html

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 20:37

I believe Bits44 posted the same story. I don't think Airbus or anyone who likes the A380 program should be concern.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 22 Jul 2006, 20:44

All will be fine. Just a birthing pain

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 22 Jul 2006, 23:35

Frankly I neither like nor dislike the aircraft, and whether I do or not is irrelevant.

If BITS44 posted it I missed it.

I do think its of possible relevance and certainly interest, because I think there has been considerable slathering over of issues on this aircraft. Its being built by a sales and not an engineering driven company, and that is cause for questioning all statements and elements (well supported by the way the whole company operates).

The wing situation was one of those. Relevant in that they are designing so close to the edge, they are making mistakes. The latest on this was that there was nothing wrong with the wing, it was already damaged and there was no problems.

So, if it was already damage, and the test is invalid, then the test needs to be re-run. Until your design tools meet the minimum specifications (and keep in mind it is a minimum, exceeding gives you a more solid aircraft), then excuses and PR does not cut it.

If you followed the problem with being overweight, the tails situation should be a serious concern. That whole upper fuselage area was changed to GLARE material when they realized they had to loose a whole lot of weight.

Having to loose a whole lot of weight 8 months (roughly) before it flies is not only severely bad project management, it also means a panic and hasty decisions on where to cut. That’s proven to be an ongoing theme of the A380 project.

I read the comments about the wiring, but I also noted in those comments about brackets breaking, and then nothing more. Both of those are questionable statements, as they said they found the wiring issues early on. Early on they did not have in flight entertainment systems installed. So, what were all the wiring issues found?

Also brackets breaking? What brackets, how did they break? More nebulous statements.

The reality is that how good or bad this aircraft is going to be will not be know for at least 2 years (and the 787 faces the same scrutiny in my mind-what I like about it is it actually is a technical leap, and not just a bigger piece of aluminum in the sky). The 787 should have more surprises than the A380, which is nothing more than a larger scale A340 (and they did not learn from that project either on weight or wiring)

My community is already benefiting from the economic activity the A380 brings (I might benefit as well), and I am looking forward to seeing it fly through here. But as an aircraft its going to get a critical review from me.

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 23 Jul 2006, 01:04

(and keep in mind it is a minimum, exceeding gives you a more solid aircraft),

Safety limits are 150% of what the plane may encounter during the worst conditions. Aircraft manufacturers like cars ones design plane to pass certification, not more not less.
I agree with you that it is more solid but it is also dead weight that need fuel to fly on each trip. It is always the same balance.

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 23 Jul 2006, 01:41

Airbus has replied to the yet to be released report on structual problems encountered in the Spring.

http://www.citizen.co.za/index/Article. ... vn8jf1.xml

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 23 Jul 2006, 02:10

bits44 wrote:Airbus has replied to the yet to be released report on structual problems encountered in the Spring.

Airbus said that a fault discovered in the fuselage of its A380 super jumbo in the spring has been long since resolved, saying it was "astonished" at how the issue was "blown up" in a German magazine article.
The fault is an "old issue which has been fixed", with the company carrying out "reinforcements on the structure, and there is absolutely nothing abnormal about that," a spokeswoman

bits44 wrote:Just when things were starting to look up, Airbus has been hit with another delay! .

Next time put a question mark at the end of your sentence when you are not sure.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 23 Jul 2006, 02:27

Stepha380 wrote: Next time put a question mark at the end of your sentence when you are not sure.

?

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 23 Jul 2006, 15:08

Can someone translate this from German? http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,428045,00.html

CX · Post by CX » 23 Jul 2006, 15:55

CXRules wrote:Can someone translate this from German? http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/0,1518,428045,00.html

free tranlsation:
How the messages-magazine of THE MIRRORS reports, the Airbus-Prestigeprojekt A380 not only problems with the cabling plague. Obviously the aviation group has to fight also with calamity at the hull of the prestige-jet.

Out of internal firms documents follows that in test flights into Toulouse problems at the hull-" section 19 emerged". The hull section formed in Spain out of Hightech-plastics receives the gigantic Leitwerk of the super jumbo. "As sequence" of the weakness stepped in the test flights to light, so the documents, beginning of March fell the "decision to reinforce" section 19.

AP A380 with Eskorte: Focus Hamburg at the location Hamburg, of which management designates in the mean time as a "focus" of the A380-Probleme, the trained aviation engineer was used meanwhile Rüdiger fox as a general delegate for the A380-Projekt. Fox' task should bundle all information and hold direct contact to the top of the company in Toulouse. Let first measure of the A380-Kontrolleurs, so insider, be an extension of working hours, around the extradition-delays aufzuholen.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 23 Jul 2006, 16:19

this is a machine translation from CXrules. Thus, the figure title sounds odd and some unknown terms are left German. I think in its main message its OK. The important sentence

"As sequence" of the weakness stepped in the test flights to light, so the documents, beginning of March fell the "decision to reinforce" section 19."

would be better translated to

As a consequence from the revealed weakness during the test flights, according to the documents, the decision was taken to reinforce section 19 in beginning of March.

I am not an aviation pro but let me ask a question: isn't it normal that during test flights, weaknesses will be revealed? and wouldn't it be the natural consequence to apply adjustments and modifications? It appears to me that the cited documents describe a very normal procedure in engineering - for documentation puposes.

- lr.

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 23 Jul 2006, 17:02

The magazin "Der Spiegel "is excellent in political matters but absolutely desastrous in anything that comes even close to aviation..!
It's not their focus and expertise- so they don't like Airbus for one reason or another (the former owner,Rudolf Augstein hated France and anything that was in relation to France ) so I assume the "anti-french" policy within the "Spiegel " Journalists is still present.
Airbus is associated to Toulouse is associated to France -so they hit on anything from there.

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 23 Jul 2006, 19:08

beaucaire wrote:The magazin "Der Spiegel "is excellent in political matters but absolutely desastrous in anything that comes even close to aviation..!
It's not their focus and expertise- so they don't like Airbus for one reason or another (the former owner,Rudolf Augstein hated France and anything that was in relation to France ) so I assume the "anti-french" policy within the "Spiegel " Journalists is still present.
Airbus is associated to Toulouse is associated to France -so they hit on anything from there.

I hope Streiff didn't read too much the "Der Speigel".. see this interesting article HERE

beaucaire · Post by **beaucaire** » 23 Jul 2006, 19:28

Thanks for the link with the article -excellent writing and very informative.
Some Spiegel-journalists should learn to write stuff like this...

CX · Post by CX » 24 Jul 2006, 10:53

I thought it would be some US newspaper 'revealing' old problems, but now it's some German newspaper?

teddybAIR · Post by **teddybAIR** » 24 Jul 2006, 13:02

RC20 wrote: Having to loose a whole lot of weight 8 months (roughly) before it flies is not only severely bad project management, it also means a panic and hasty decisions on where to cut.

Is that a scientific equation you put their? loss of weight x (1/ time in months to deadline) = panic ???

Sounds like a pretty hasty conclusion to me! If you ask me, that is exactly the essence of project management: you set up a plan, taking into account the available resources. Off course, this is an estimate, so variations can occur in function of market-evolutions, strikes, technical drawbacks, etc. But then again, project management consists of playing with:

1. available resources
2. timing of tasks
3. deadlines
4. quality levels (only in last resort and not in strongly regulated industries such as aviation)

My (subjective) conclusion:
It's not because a program is delayed that a company can be labelled as 'in chaos or panic'. It's simply the outcome of a tradeoff between tasks, resources and deadlines. Unfortunately for the financial markets, the most easy to manipulate is the timing. Yet, this doesn't necessarily have an impact on the quality of the product (although it can). Nevertheless, the perception of potential customers can be different and it is (or should be) airbus' goal to prove the sceptics wrong after the introduction of the product. Doing so before that will probably cost them to much effort for a low return. Just prove it with the quality of the product. They've done it in the past right?

Regards,
bAIR

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 24 Jul 2006, 13:45

Airbus A380 lands in Al Ain for hot weather testing
Why did it not stay in France? It is hot there too...Ask Boonen

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 24 Jul 2006, 14:32

Trust me - France may be hot but it ain't as hot (or dry) as AL Ain at this time of year! Nice place for a visit by the way....

Stepha380 · Post by **Stepha380** » 24 Jul 2006, 16:00

Is it possible to change the title of the thread to "A380 Highs and Lows" Airbus bashers and supporters will be both happy, and it will avoid the creation of thousand threads.

MSN 004 livery for hot-weather tests. http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1080157/L/

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 24 Jul 2006, 16:48

In designing a plane, the designers try to minimize weight to maximmize the economics. During the test program, problems often arise that require the additon of extra strength or stiffening (which adds weight). This is part of the normal developmental process. Assuiming that it has been identified and resolved, it is not a big deal, if the added weight is not excessive.