Singapore Airlines chooses A 350

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 21 Jul 2006, 18:39

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/060721/20060721005272.html?.v=1

sab319 · Post by **sab319** » 21 Jul 2006, 20:15

well this is quiet surprising since they already have 787's on order, but than again SQ did a similar thing in the past when operating both the A340-300 and B777-200 and ultimatly chose to go completely with the T7...

CX · Post by CX » 22 Jul 2006, 02:55

787 has always been a smaller aircraft than even the original A350.. These A350XWBs are i think to replace their current 772s, while the 40 787 they ordered were more for expansion/new routes etc. I am still convinced they will go for -1000XWBs in the near future to replace its 773s.
I think SIA buying another 9 A380s is more important because at least it shows SIA is happy with it, and it is probably meeting its specs well..

Still nothing from Emirates, they might buy something like 200 787s or A350s?

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 03:13

SQ has a MoU with the 787, they haven't officially ordered the plane.

CX · Post by CX » 22 Jul 2006, 03:17

David747 wrote:SQ has a MoU with the 787, they haven't officially ordered the plane.

I see, but looks like they'll firm it up doesn't it? 40 789s vs 20 A359XWBs

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 22 Jul 2006, 03:19

CX wrote:
David747 wrote:SQ has a MoU with the 787, they haven't officially ordered the plane.
I see, but looks like they'll firm it up doesn't it? 40 789s vs 20 A359XWBs

These orders are Singapore Airlines way of keeping things interesting for us

....

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 03:19

SQ, according to one of their bosses said the B787 will be used in their fleet, but then again, they can change their mind and cancel their MoU. Whatever happens in the future remains to be seen. Anyways, what a rebound week for Airbus.

CX · Post by CX » 22 Jul 2006, 03:20

David747 wrote:SQ, according to one of their bosses said the B787 will be used in their fleet, but then again, they can change their mind and cancel their MoU. Whatever happens in the future remains to be seen. Anyways, what a rebound week for Airbus.

Well, it has been rather positive but the 25 A380 order did not come..

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 03:26

25 order for the A380 will come in time, John Leahy was probably blowing hot air as he usually does. Sometimes he is right though.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 22 Jul 2006, 17:22

I am not an airline professional but let me ask something: obviously it was quite surprising that SIA chooses the A350, because they have ordered the B787 already. Thus, as many suggest, the commonality effects are lower to save costs.

However, I wondered about the risk that one of the very new aircrafts will have problems (I really hope not): wouldn't it be better for an airline from risk-aware point of view to share the capacity with two aircraft types in case problems occurrs with one of them?

I do not now, if this represents a meaningful consideration and would like to hear your opinion on that. Of course, I never wish that a problem or even an accident happens with one of these airliners. Just wondering about the risk issue in a business.

-lr.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 17:29

lastrow wrote:I am not an airline professional but let me ask something: obviously it was quite surprising that SIA chooses the A350, because they have ordered the B787 already. Thus, as many suggest, the commonality effects are lower to save costs.

First thing, SQ only signed a LOI to purchase the 787, and it isn't a firm order yet. From reading news articles, it seems the SQ has opted to go with the A350 and will most likely not purchase the 787 and give up its intended slots.(you never know though) If SQ ends up buying both Airliners, then I guess the performance of both these planes will be used to expand SQ 250 to 300 pax routes.

However, I wondered about the risk that one of the very new aircrafts will have problems (I really hope not): wouldn't it be better for an airline from risk-aware point of view to share the capacity with two aircraft types in case problems occurrs with one of them?

No. If an aircraft out performs another aircraft, it would be wise for the company to stick with one that shows better overall performance.

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:04

David747 wrote:
Code: Select all
However, I wondered about the risk that one of the very new aircrafts will have problems (I really hope not): wouldn't it be better for an airline from risk-aware point of view to share the capacity with two aircraft types in case problems occurrs with one of them?
No. If an aircraft out performs another aircraft, it would be wise for the company to stick with one that shows better overall performance.

thanks, for your quick answer. But please let me clarify: In the case of B787 and A350XWB, both planes have a high amount of new technologies. These pose a financial risk until the certification will be granted which is in a couple years from now. Thus, the buying decision might be different in terms of risk than for a LCC that has a good fleet of either B737s or A320s already and decides on additional x aircrafts. wouldn't this situation be different than from a situation on deciding on well-established airliners?

-lr.

cageyjames · Post by **cageyjames** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:13

I can't speak for all LLCs but at US Airways it isn't really that much of a problem. Of course we'd love to get rid of our older 733s and 734s and just run A320s, but it hasn't been as much of a hassle as you'd think. We run 767s and 330s on the same routes, we run 757s and 321s on the same routes. The only really big problem we ever run into is when you have to replace one aircraft with another at the last minute. For example, our A321s have 26 First Class seats while our older 757s (the US Airways Eastern Airlines models) have only 8 seats. So you can imagine how unhappy people can be when they have to fly across the United States in coach rather than FC (those older 757s have other issues too so I'd never really want to be on them anyway). If we had only one A/C type then substituting would be no problem.

Personally I don't think maintenance really enters the equation unless you have to have specialized services for maintaining them. Even then you can usually just outsource maintenance in those cases.

David747 · Post by **David747** » 22 Jul 2006, 18:17

Lastrow, like I keep saying, anything is possible, and it wouldn't surprise me if SQ does indeed have a mix fleet of both B787's and A350's. But the reason I say that SQ will opt for the A350 only its because, and this is my opinion, the A350 provides the passanger capacity necessary for some of their routes. If the B787 is the right plane for SQ, they would have order it a long time ago, but seeing that they have order the A350, which will be in delivered in a few years time, in my opinion again, it seems the A350 is a right fit for SQ.

Very interesting times in the aviation industry though, don't you just love it?

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 22 Jul 2006, 19:50

cageyjames wrote:I can't speak for all LLCs but at US Airways it isn't really that much of a problem. Of course we'd love to get rid of our older 733s and 734s and just run A320s, but it hasn't been as much of a hassle as you'd think. We run 767s and 330s on the same routes, we run 757s and 321s on the same routes. The only really big problem we ever run into is when you have to replace one aircraft with another at the last minute. For example, our A321s have 26 First Class seats while our older 757s (the US Airways Eastern Airlines models) have only 8 seats. So you can imagine how unhappy people can be when they have to fly across the United States in coach rather than FC (those older 757s have other issues too so I'd never really want to be on them anyway). If we had only one A/C type then substituting would be no problem.

Personally I don't think maintenance really enters the equation unless you have to have specialized services for maintaining them. Even then you can usually just outsource maintenance in those cases.

Im glad to see US Airways Delta and Continental grabbing as many 757's as possible. That is an OUTSTANDING machine! Absolutely beautiful and elegant looking. If the 757 was a lady, i would ask her hand in marriage

....

CX · Post by CX » 24 Jul 2006, 11:01

David747 wrote:Lastrow, like I keep saying, anything is possible, and it wouldn't surprise me if SQ does indeed have a mix fleet of both B787's and A350's. But the reason I say that SQ will opt for the A350 only its because, and this is my opinion, the A350 provides the passanger capacity necessary for some of their routes. If the B787 is the right plane for SQ, they would have order it a long time ago, but seeing that they have order the A350, which will be in delivered in a few years time, in my opinion again, it seems the A350 is a right fit for SQ.

Very interesting times in the aviation industry though, don't you just love it?

I wouldn't be surprised if they operate both 787 and A350XWB, i mean the A359 is pretty much the identical market as their 772s, and they signed a LOI for 788s right? 788 is quite a bit smaller than A359, so what's the problem? So many airlines operate 772s with A333s... However what I think will happen is SIA dropping 40 787s to 20, and i forgot whether they ordered any new 773ERs, if they didn't then chances are they will get A350-1000 to replace their rather old 773s...

I am also guessing cathay will go for Airbus to replace their own A330s and 772/773s, they have 30 773ER on order or something but those are replacing A343s and 744s...

lastrow · Post by **lastrow** » 24 Jul 2006, 12:47

David747 wrote:Very interesting times in the aviation industry though, don't you just love it?

yes, right

just wondering about the way airlines take decisions. both planes will be great anyway.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 24 Jul 2006, 17:54

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=5806

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 24 Jul 2006, 22:57

yes, right just wondering about the way airlines take decisions.

Like ancient Chinese Proverb " Don't put eggs all in one basket"

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 25 Jul 2006, 17:36

The range of the new A350 and the B787 is about the same, but the A350 seats about 25-30 more passengers. SIA has stated that they will tailor their fleet to specific routes. The A350 will serve SE Asia and North America, while the B787 will serve SE Asia and India (for example). Obviously, the A350 will have a higher fuel burn, but the extra seats may offset the dfference.

We do not know the sepcifics of the A350 XWB; no specs have been publicly released, although the airlines have (I'm sure) been given more information than publically released. Since the plane will not be composite, we can assume that it will weigh more, need more powerful engines, have heavier landing gear, etc. and, therefore use more fuel. As pointed out by several analysts, Airbus is attempting to cover all bets (B777 & 787) with one plane, It seems that they will not be able to compete with the lower end of the 787 and the upper end of the 777 with a plane that is optimmized for one wing planform.

Of course, Boeing will make changes to the 777 to keep it competitive. New, more efficient engines, aerodynamic improvements, more light weight components, etc. will help improve the efficiency.

We'll just have to wait and see what the final products (777 vs. 787 vs. 350 XWB) are and how well they compete!

Aviation24.be

Singapore Airlines chooses A 350

Singapore Airlines chooses A 350

SIA A-350 XWB