Boeing vs Airbus : Boeing not yet beaten !

airazurxtror · Post by **airazurxtror** » 10 May 2006, 19:05

Read in "Le Soir" to-day :

For the first four months of 2006, Airbus has delivered 142 aircraft against 126 for Boeing.
But Boeing registered 325 new orders against 99 for Airbus.
In April only, Airbus got only 9 orders, against 175 for Boeing.
Since the beginning of 2006, Airbus has not yet registered any new order for its A380.
After a record 2005 year for Airbus, Boeing seems to come back at the first place.

Vinnie-Winnie · Post by **Vinnie-Winnie** » 10 May 2006, 21:07

Did it really take Le Soir about one year to figure out that Airbus wasn't as successful as previously thought?

Sad state of the french speaking belgian press...

Back to the topic a well known fact is that Boeing gambled successfully in the 90's when designing new planes! It was helped by continuous rising oil prices!

But it's not over yet wait for Farnborough and more importantly wait till the end of the year to really judge on both companies performances!

Zenfookpower · Post by **Zenfookpower** » 10 May 2006, 21:41

I think the title of this post (thread) is misleading ...who needs to beat who..The quoted figures suggest that it is "Airbus will be beaten" or it might be as stated by airazurxtror that the quoted newspaper is seing those kind of things differently..I don't know..

abishay · Post by **abishay** » 10 May 2006, 23:28

I thoguht the a380 was going to be succesful but too bad not too many orders for it.

hope airbus puts up a good show soon

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 11 May 2006, 01:14

abishay wrote:I thoguht the a380 was going to be succesful but too bad not too many orders for it.

hope airbus puts up a good show soon

Is the 777 succesfull? How much did Boeing sell in the year before EIS?

That's right, ZERO.

It seems airlines who want to order it now wait until it has flown, to be sure of the specs...

This whole topic is irrelevant. The score is final after the match has been played (1 jan. 2007), not after the 29th minute in the game...

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 11 May 2006, 05:26

It is of the utmost importance that Airbus continue to be a successful competitor in the Aircraft Industry, a balance must be maintained to ensure that competition, and development of new and better aircraft continues.

The competition between Boeing and Airbus has been going on since Airbus was formed and has resulted in better, more economical aircraft.

Airbus has made some bad judgements in recent times by misreading the market, and maybe not listening to the airline industry. Together with that they face a tremendous debt load right now with the huge costs in the A380 development and few profit generating sales of the type.

Despite all the hurdles in their path, they must continue to build new technologically advanced aircraft, if they don't, they will fail.

Nobody wants to see that happen, and I'm sure it won't, but they have to chart a new path and hopefully with solid management and a firm hand at the helm they can bounce back.

This year will probably be the most interesting in the Industry and many many people wait with anticipation on what will develop, fuel costs are just killing profit margins and every single airline is looking for ways to save money, either by dumping older inefficient aircraft, or hedging their fuel costs.

KT

loadmaster747 · Post by **loadmaster747** » 11 May 2006, 12:15

In fact, the title of this topic sounds bad.

Nobody wants to beat rawly its competitor but wants to sell more planes that's the law of market.Don't forget that the competition between those Giants of Aviation will profit to every aircrafts users all around the world, finally be sure that there's enough space for more than two Aircraft Manufactures in the world, that's my point of view.

CX · Post by CX » 11 May 2006, 12:40

If the A380 meet its specs it will be ordered, it is normal airlines to hesitate to order such a dramatic airliner at its launch..

I am wondering what Boeing will do about what is supposed to be a 777/787 leap-frogging A350. I think Boeing has the resources and time to leapfrog the A350 maybe 2 years after the A350 enters service, but even if they can do it, will they do it? Is it good for the market to kind of close the door of another competitor in a 2 company market?

chornedsnorkack · Post by **chornedsnorkack** » 11 May 2006, 12:59

loadmaster747 wrote:Nobody wants to beat rawly its competitor but wants to sell more planes that's the law of market.Don't forget that the competition between those Giants of Aviation will profit to every aircrafts users all around the world,

But not the manufacturers. The manufacturers would naturally like to reach the point where its competitors are out of business, so that the customers have the alternatives of buying at the price asked and with features offered, or not buying at all.

abishay · Post by **abishay** » 11 May 2006, 14:05

Buzz wrote:
abishay wrote:I thoguht the a380 was going to be succesful but too bad not too many orders for it.

hope airbus puts up a good show soon
Is the 777 succesfull? How much did Boeing sell in the year before EIS?

That's right, ZERO.

It seems airlines who want to order it now wait until it has flown, to be sure of the specs...

This whole topic is irrelevant. The score is final after the match has been played (1 jan. 2007), not after the 29th minute in the game...

that means the a380 still have a chance of being succesful :mexwave: :jump2:

David747 · Post by **David747** » 11 May 2006, 19:08

Yes, Airbus is in trouble, they are going down in flames, its horrible I tell you.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 12 May 2006, 01:35

CX wrote:If the A380 meet its specs it will be ordered, it is normal airlines to hesitate to order such a dramatic airliner at its launch..

I am wondering what Boeing will do about what is supposed to be a 777/787 leap-frogging A350. I think Boeing has the resources and time to leapfrog the A350 maybe 2 years after the A350 enters service, but even if they can do it, will they do it? Is it good for the market to kind of close the door of another competitor in a 2 company market?

I think the spin is well in motion here on the so called “leap frogging”. A latter start does not “leap frog” the earlier start just because it came second.

A the key to Airbus early success was a very good efficient product at the right time, with fuel prices an issue, Boeing attitude and pricing a huge issue.

At best right now, Airbus could match Boeing with an all composite fuselage to go along with the wing. More likely they will try to compete with the Al/Li skin and the frame and dated skin fuselage technology.

Leap frogging would mean a newer technology, or vast improvement on the current one (composite). As they don’t even have experience with composites like Boeing has, that’s not going to happen.

So, the big key in what they finally come up with is what type of aircraft it is. Boeing is going to be capturing massive amounts in the market in the meantime.

Beating Boeing at aerodynamics with even the same technology is tough. If you look at what Boeing has done with the 737NGs, and that they are more fuel efficient than the A320 series (which were designed with a pylon type engine versus the underslung tube type of the original 737), you are on tough ground indeed.

Also, if the reports are accurate, they are building a heavier frame aircraft to compete with the 777, that means the smaller sizes will have a weight disdvantage

As we are looking at 2014-2015 before that gets into initial service, Boeing has a huge amount of time to counter it. That could be an all composite wing for the 777, or even a whole new series based on composites.

I think what we are seeing is a triumph of desperation for Airbus, but not desperate enough to actually deal with the issues. They need a master plan, as they have let Boeing into the drivers seat, and they have not put into place what Boeing did in the 90s (that being the planning and technology to compete). And with no launch aid allowed, that’s going to be one seriously tough fight, which the current Airbus leadership is not able to handle.

abishay · Post by **abishay** » 12 May 2006, 08:18

David747 wrote:Yes, Airbus is in trouble, they are going down in flames, its horrible I tell you.

thats really horrible to hear 8O :dammit:

@RC20

you are right about it being a tough fight 8)

really tough fight

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » 12 May 2006, 17:31

abishay wrote:
David747 wrote:Yes, Airbus is in trouble, they are going down in flames, its horrible I tell you.
thats really horrible to hear 8O :dammit:

Take your dictionary and look up the word 'sarcasm'.

You'll understand the smily after that statement better afterwards...

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 14 May 2006, 03:19

As the saying goes "every dog has its day in the sun". Yesterday was Airbus' time in the sun, today it's Boeing's turn. And tomorrow? Who knows - let's watch and see!

vc-10 · Post by **vc-10** » 14 May 2006, 16:14

I race rowing boats made in exactly the way that that video of a test 787 section was made. These are 4/5 years old. These boats are made in sheds. I think that Airbus, the world's largest airliner manufacturer, can make a fuselage out of Carbon Fibre.

earthman · Post by **earthman** » 15 May 2006, 19:39

Boeing actually licensed a robotic 3D laminating technology from a company which developed it to make ultra-high-end yacht sails.