El Al will choose A330 for replacement B767

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 19 Apr 2006, 18:46

This is a surprise!! El Al is a loyal Boeing client but nevertheless they choose 7 A330's for the replacement of the B767.

This is good news for Airbus, but also good for us, spotters, to see an EL Al A330 at BRU.

Source: Luchtvaartnieuws.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:00

The US Government has been (perhaps) the staunchest supporter of Israel since its’ founding in 1948. This support (defense, political, emotional and, financial) has been at great financial expense and has negatively affected US-Arab relationships.

The cost of this support has been underwritten by the US taxpayer. Orders placed by El Al have contributed to the wages of US workers, who in turn, have paid taxes on their income that was used to contribute to Israel’s support.

Question: If El Al buys planes made elsewhere, will the taxpayers of the producing nations now relieve the US taxpayer of this cost and directly contribute to Israel?

SAS_MD80 · Post by **SAS_MD80** » 19 Apr 2006, 19:28

Frankly, I don't see why they should.
Chris

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 19 Apr 2006, 20:25

JDarby · Post by **JDarby** » 19 Apr 2006, 22:01

1- LY is now a private company.
2- What would you do if someone offered you A330 for just over $60 m?

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 19 Apr 2006, 22:34

I'd buy it straight away, but I'd also be mindful of which side my bread is buttered on! There's an old saying, "Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

chunk · Post by **chunk** » 20 Apr 2006, 02:29

There are a couple of things here - the fac that the company is private is big. Perhaps the newly privatised company is trying to make a point that it is independent and able to make its own decisions. Secondly - if you have an urgent need for new planes and you have a choice between waiting until 2010 at least for an unproven plane (787) or a prove performer in a two year time frame at a great price - what would you do?

That said I will not believe it until the planes are in Tel Aviv with El Al colours.....

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 20 Apr 2006, 02:31

JDarby wrote:1- LY is now a private company.
2- What would you do if someone offered you A330 for just over $60 m?

Considering what it is in copetition with, I would ask LOTS of questions...

....

JDarby · Post by **JDarby** » 20 Apr 2006, 02:55

I agree with you Somkejumper & TexasGuy, but as chunk said, they needed the planes right away.

chunk, please don't start favoring what will become very soon a piece of junk (A330) over the state of the art technology (B787)

Post by **sn26567** » 20 Apr 2006, 12:43

chunk wrote:That said I will not believe it until the planes are in Tel Aviv with El Al colours.....

Also my opinion: there will be a lot of water flowing under the bridges before an Airbus sports the El Al colours. Expect the US to put a lot of pressure on the Israeli government (which is still a major shareholder, if I am correct).

CX · Post by CX » 20 Apr 2006, 13:26

It's only 7 planes though... and i mean the airlines in US don't ALL use just Boeings..

fokker_f27 · Post by **fokker_f27** » 20 Apr 2006, 19:00

I still think they're better off with the 787. A330 are a fairly ond design now, so the 787 or A350 seems a good deal, because even tough you have to wait, it will pay off: 787 are state-of-the-art planes. If I where them, I would wait, but those 767s are really starting to get old.

TexasGuy · Post by **TexasGuy** » 20 Apr 2006, 19:38

fokker_f27 wrote:I still think they're better off with the 787. A330 are a fairly ond design now, so the 787 or A350 seems a good deal, because even tough you have to wait, it will pay off: 787 are state-of-the-art planes. If I where them, I would wait, but those 767s are really starting to get old.

Are they not re-doing the interiors of thier 767's? As for the age of the plane, its a tank. Interior upgrades will do the job from a passenger standpoint. The Boeing and MD aircraft were built to last.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 20 Apr 2006, 19:45

I really did not intend to stir-up the pot too much, but I’m sure that Delta Airlines (AL), American AL, Continental AL, United AL, etc., who receive no direct Federal aid and are in, about to go into, or just emerging from bankruptcy, would love to receive some of the money that the US has sent to Israel. El Al may be private now, but for decades the US taxpayer propped up the airline through its government. The money paid by these taxpayers, in part, was paid by Boeing workers.

When the US government (really the US taxpayer) gives Israel $3 billion in assistance, this money is not available for more important purposes. Eight months ago, two hurricanes struck the US Gulf Coast. An area larger than Great Britain was destroyed (Southern Louisiana, Southern Mississippi and Southeastern Texas – take Great Britain and lay it on its side for comparison). Many people are still homeless and Federal money is used to house and feed them, rebuild their homes, rebuild the levies, restore roads and sewers, etc.

I contend that monies that have been used for foreign assistance would be better used to help our people at home. Sorry for the diatribe, but a nerve has been struck.

regi · Post by **regi** » 20 Apr 2006, 22:19

I didn't check the details, but did El Al really BUY the planes, or did they lease them? Some of the larger leasing companies have very close ties with Tel Aviv.

Robin_Bamps · Post by **Robin_Bamps** » 20 Apr 2006, 22:57

EL AL considered the A330 a previous time back in 1999, but than dropped an eventual order in favour of the Boeing 777, of which the airline currently operates four aircraft.

Regards, Robin Bamps.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 21 Apr 2006, 18:11

You can see the aid the US taxpayer has give to Israel. Given this, should we not expect to get something back?

U.S. Financial Aid To Israel: Figures, Facts, and Impact

Summary
Benefits to Israel of U.S. Aid
Since 1949 (As of November 1, 1997)

Foreign Aid Grants and Loans
$74,157,600,000

Other U.S. Aid (12.2% of Foreign Aid)
$9,047,227,200

Interest to Israel from Advanced Payments
$1,650,000,000

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Total Benefits per Israeli
$14,630 Cost to U.S. Taxpayers of U.S.
Aid to Israel

Grand Total
$84,854,827,200

Interest Costs Borne by U.S.
$49,936,680,000

Total Cost to U.S. Taxpayers
$134,791,507,200

Total Taxpayer Cost per Israeli
$23,240

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 21 Apr 2006, 18:39

The source was www.wrmea.com (Washington Report on Middle East Affairs). My comments are directly related too aviation since they relate to the financing of aircraft. The most brilliant airplane design is worthless if customers can not buy them and the US has certainly helped Israel buy planes (thus the relevance).