hello friends , i love the su27 it's for me the best aircraft never builds what do you think about it ?
www.freazer.com/perso/mig29ub
the su -27 for me the best
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Ozzie1969
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Re: the su -27 for me the best
You could be right about Su-27 being the best ever, but why do you call yourself Mig29s then? 
just want to notice that the Indian Air Force flies the Su-30 instead of the Su-27. I guess the Su-30 is a bit more modern.
And about the excercise: it is know that the Indian Air Force send's it best pilots to excercises. Remember the excercise between USAF F-15's and the Su-30, the F-15's lost but not because the SU-30 is better than the
F-15.
But anyway, I sure also like the Sukhoi family, they keep amazing me with their maneuvers, surtenly with the thrust vectoring! too bad you see then so little on western Airshow's
(indeed strange to call yourself MiG-29s if you love the Su-27
)
Greetz, Pietn
And about the excercise: it is know that the Indian Air Force send's it best pilots to excercises. Remember the excercise between USAF F-15's and the Su-30, the F-15's lost but not because the SU-30 is better than the
F-15.
But anyway, I sure also like the Sukhoi family, they keep amazing me with their maneuvers, surtenly with the thrust vectoring! too bad you see then so little on western Airshow's
(indeed strange to call yourself MiG-29s if you love the Su-27
)Greetz, Pietn
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Ozzie1969
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Su-30 is the two-seater version of the Su-27, destined for defensive missions lasting up to 10 hours and also fit to land on aircraft carriers.pietn wrote:just want to notice that the Indian Air Force flies the Su-30 instead of the Su-27. I guess the Su-30 is a bit more modern.
Source : "Fighter Aircraft" by Francis Crosby, Anness Publishing Ltd., London, 2002
Nice of you to search that info but I know that, that the Su-30 is an adapted version of the Su-27, just like all the other variants (Su-33,35,32)
But I just wanted to say it correct. A Su-33 is also an adapted Su-27 but there is a clear difference between then, so it is the same with the Su-30. What I didn't knew is that they can lmand on carriers, thought it was only the Su-33 who could do that.
But I just wanted to say it correct. A Su-33 is also an adapted Su-27 but there is a clear difference between then, so it is the same with the Su-30. What I didn't knew is that they can lmand on carriers, thought it was only the Su-33 who could do that.
well, actually, they've beaten the F-15's cause they cheated a bit 
1.The F-15's where outnumbered
2.The USAF didn't sent it's most modern F-15's
3.It was ment as an excercise, and the Indians took it a bit to serious by sending their "Top Guns" against the normal USAF fighter pilot.
And I think the whole excercise was close combat so the Americans couldn't use their mighty AIM-120
or Sparrow.
But this all said, the Indian Air Force must indeed have good pilots, cause afterall, you still need to be able do the job
Greetz, Pietn
1.The F-15's where outnumbered
2.The USAF didn't sent it's most modern F-15's
3.It was ment as an excercise, and the Indians took it a bit to serious by sending their "Top Guns"
against the normal USAF fighter pilot.And I think the whole excercise was close combat so the Americans couldn't use their mighty AIM-120
or Sparrow.But this all said, the Indian Air Force must indeed have good pilots, cause afterall, you still need to be able do the job
Greetz, Pietn
hi again,
happy newyear everybody , best wishes for 2006!
Actually, we went completely off-topic here, so to react on the first post by Mig29s:
my favorit plane (pure performance) is the F-18 Hornet, my favorite bomber the B1-B lancer
How I think about the Su-27, great plane, specially when it comes to maneuverability, it looks great at low speed, but in most of the movieclips I have, it then always looks so slow when it needs to accelerate from a low speed manoeuver to a high speed.
And to photograph, there's nothing better than a Belgian F-16 with a nice tigertail
greetz, pietn
happy newyear everybody
, best wishes for 2006!Actually, we went completely off-topic here, so to react on the first post by Mig29s:
my favorit plane (pure performance) is the F-18 Hornet, my favorite bomber the B1-B lancer
How I think about the Su-27, great plane, specially when it comes to maneuverability, it looks great at low speed, but in most of the movieclips I have, it then always looks so slow when it needs to accelerate from a low speed manoeuver to a high speed.
And to photograph, there's nothing better than a Belgian F-16 with a nice tigertail
greetz, pietn
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AirSmetten
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Hellow everybody
My favorite aircraft are the F-104"G" Starfighter and the B-1B Lancer 8)
When I see or saw these aircraft in the sky goose bumps came all over me
And for the Sukhoi discussion :
India does NOT operate the Su-27!!!
It operates the Su-30 wich is in fact the second generation Flanker.
An "Su-30M" two-seat multirole variant was proposed for Russian use, and a few may have been built in the mid-1990s for evaluation, though details are very unclear. More significantly, the Sukhoi organization proposed an export variant, the "Su-30MK", where "MK" stood for "Modernizirovannyi Kommercheskiy / Modernized Commercial".
* In 1996 the Indian Air Force (IAF) ordered 40 "Su-30MKI" fighters at a cost of $1.8 billion USD. The Su-30MKI was to be based on the Su-30MK but with major enhancements, such as further updated avionics, including a much improved radar and a high proportion of non-Russian kit; canard fins; and thrust-vectored engines. The Su-30MKI would definitely be "new wine in new bottles", amounting to a true next-generation Su-27. The deal also included the latest Russian missiles for the new fighters.
The sales agreement was complicated in form and in implementation. The full-specification Su-30MKI did not even exist at the time the deal was cut, and so the 40 aircraft were delivered in what amounted to "blocks" of increasing capability, with early aircraft to be upgraded to full specification later. The initial block was punctually delivered in 1997 and consisted of eight "Su-30K" machines, which were basically similar to the Russian Su-27PU / Su-30 (and no relation to the navalized Russian Navy Su-27K / Su-33 carrier fighter). The Su-30Ks were brought in by Antonov An-124 jumbo jet cargolifters, with each flight carrying two Su-30Ks in knocked-down form. The IAF accepted the first Su-30K into formal service on 11 July 1997.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avsu272.html#m1
Greetz
Rick
My favorite aircraft are the F-104"G" Starfighter and the B-1B Lancer 8)
When I see or saw these aircraft in the sky goose bumps came all over me
And for the Sukhoi discussion :
India does NOT operate the Su-27!!!
It operates the Su-30 wich is in fact the second generation Flanker.
An "Su-30M" two-seat multirole variant was proposed for Russian use, and a few may have been built in the mid-1990s for evaluation, though details are very unclear. More significantly, the Sukhoi organization proposed an export variant, the "Su-30MK", where "MK" stood for "Modernizirovannyi Kommercheskiy / Modernized Commercial".
* In 1996 the Indian Air Force (IAF) ordered 40 "Su-30MKI" fighters at a cost of $1.8 billion USD. The Su-30MKI was to be based on the Su-30MK but with major enhancements, such as further updated avionics, including a much improved radar and a high proportion of non-Russian kit; canard fins; and thrust-vectored engines. The Su-30MKI would definitely be "new wine in new bottles", amounting to a true next-generation Su-27. The deal also included the latest Russian missiles for the new fighters.
The sales agreement was complicated in form and in implementation. The full-specification Su-30MKI did not even exist at the time the deal was cut, and so the 40 aircraft were delivered in what amounted to "blocks" of increasing capability, with early aircraft to be upgraded to full specification later. The initial block was punctually delivered in 1997 and consisted of eight "Su-30K" machines, which were basically similar to the Russian Su-27PU / Su-30 (and no relation to the navalized Russian Navy Su-27K / Su-33 carrier fighter). The Su-30Ks were brought in by Antonov An-124 jumbo jet cargolifters, with each flight carrying two Su-30Ks in knocked-down form. The IAF accepted the first Su-30K into formal service on 11 July 1997.
http://www.vectorsite.net/avsu272.html#m1
Greetz
Rick
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AirSmetten
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And fot the America Vs India topic :
The fight cant be called quite fair as I think!
There where some contradictions in it :
1. Pilot skills : India sent in there so called ' Top Gun' pilots to the exercise, these pilots had trained the senario the months before. America came to the exercise with regular skilled pilots.
2. The F-15's where not the most modern variants. They didn't use the new "EASA" fitted F-15C's.
3. America was not premitted to use the AIM-120 AMRAAM so the where flying the exerice well in range of the Indian longer range missiles.
4. America was outnumbered in the fights. The situations where 2 F15's Vs 4 Su30's / 4 F-15's Vs 4Su-30's and 4 Mirage 2000's ...
I find the result of this exercise cant represent the quality of bolth airforces.
I'm really looking out for an American replay with some new F-22A Raptors 8)
Greetz again
Rick
The fight cant be called quite fair as I think!
There where some contradictions in it :
1. Pilot skills : India sent in there so called ' Top Gun' pilots to the exercise, these pilots had trained the senario the months before. America came to the exercise with regular skilled pilots.
2. The F-15's where not the most modern variants. They didn't use the new "EASA" fitted F-15C's.
3. America was not premitted to use the AIM-120 AMRAAM so the where flying the exerice well in range of the Indian longer range missiles.
4. America was outnumbered in the fights. The situations where 2 F15's Vs 4 Su30's / 4 F-15's Vs 4Su-30's and 4 Mirage 2000's ...
I find the result of this exercise cant represent the quality of bolth airforces.
I'm really looking out for an American replay with some new F-22A Raptors 8)
Greetz again
Rick
yes, but then again, you can't compare a Su-30 and a F-22, i think it's pretty obvious that the raptor will win then. although, the raptor still needs to proof his capabilities in an air combat.
great link smetten, finally some clearance in al the Sukhoi types
could have save yourself a lot of typing work by just placing the link
nice of you to give a more detailed report on the India vs America topic
greetz, pietn
great link smetten, finally some clearance in al the Sukhoi types
could have save yourself a lot of typing work by just placing the link
nice of you to give a more detailed report on the India vs America topic
greetz, pietn
yes, the monster of military sales and arms build up is quite strange. Vietnam which still is one of the poorest countries in the world, bought these planes also in the naval quality. It uses this plane as a deterrant against China , in the discussion about the Spratley islands. (where there is oil)
But China did also buy these planes.
Malaysia started another weapon race, scaring Singapore and Thailand.
Nevertheless, except of China, none of the export customers has total theatre control. We saw this handicap very well with the first Gulf War. Iraqi pilots flew to Iran to avoid destruction. Not 1 Iraqi plane could enter combat theatre. Whatever modern or sofisticated plane you have, it is useless in a combat theatre where you don't have satellite control, long distance AWACS planes, supportive navy in anti aircraft role etcetera.
But as long as they use it against eachother, it is a great killer.
We saw very old fashioned yugoslavian planes bombing Croatia and Bosnia in the early days of the Balkan conflict. Without great losses or retaliation. But when the NATO bombed Serbia and Kosovo, it had no defence.
In this respect, it is better for countries to continue to use old planes such as F-4 and M-21 Fishbeds with modern equipment (like Rumania and its upgrade by the Israelian Elbit) , but integrated into a large overall system.
But China did also buy these planes.
Malaysia started another weapon race, scaring Singapore and Thailand.
Nevertheless, except of China, none of the export customers has total theatre control. We saw this handicap very well with the first Gulf War. Iraqi pilots flew to Iran to avoid destruction. Not 1 Iraqi plane could enter combat theatre. Whatever modern or sofisticated plane you have, it is useless in a combat theatre where you don't have satellite control, long distance AWACS planes, supportive navy in anti aircraft role etcetera.
But as long as they use it against eachother, it is a great killer.
We saw very old fashioned yugoslavian planes bombing Croatia and Bosnia in the early days of the Balkan conflict. Without great losses or retaliation. But when the NATO bombed Serbia and Kosovo, it had no defence.
In this respect, it is better for countries to continue to use old planes such as F-4 and M-21 Fishbeds with modern equipment (like Rumania and its upgrade by the Israelian Elbit) , but integrated into a large overall system.