It has been often reported that Bellview was one of the most respectable and safe airlines in Africa, and ttherefore favoured by UN and local officials and expatriates.
The Nigeria crash could have happened anywhere in the world.
respect for Africa (or lack thereof)
The positive side of corruption in Africa (as well in many other not so western countries) is that you know before hand there will be corruption. No surprises.
Positive about those so called incompetent leaders/politicians is that they are not really evil. They perform a task, to spread welfare among their tribe, family. Example: Zaire under Mobutu or Congo under the Kabila's. Make the calculation of deaths and I know who to prefer.
Other positive remark about the African leaders: We don't see Zimbabwean stealth bombers dropping smart bombs on Buckingham Palace or Downing Street Nr. 10. We don't see a resolution of e.g. Nigeria against the USA because of WMD piled up in South-Dakota. Kenya can restraint its imperial naval force to invade Nigeria to take its oil.
Do I forget about the sudanese deaths, or the Great Lakes tragedies? I don't . I mean: the positive point of the mentality of these african leaders is that they have no global view. They are not political. They serve their clan. The few great african leaders which had global ambitions were killed, boxed in or locked up such as Nasser, Saddat, Khadafi and Mandela.
There is no danger for the western interests if sudanese militias kill some zillions of poor non-muslims. But Nasser, he was a pain in the ...And Mandela, he was a communist! So , lock him up. Saddat was killed because he didn't want to serve the weapon lobby and declared peace with Israel. And Kadhafi his stepdaughter was blown to kebab because he interfered with international affairs.
Africans and western style politics don't fit together. It doesn't work. I learned some years ago from a belgian university professor that it it useless to make a written contract with an african. A handwriting makes no sense to them. It has no value. First you must be his friend. And friends divide their wealth among eachother. Former french president Giscard d'Estaing understood this very well. He went to visit Bokasa in the central African republic. Bokasa give him young girls (alive) and handfulls of diamonds. Giscard give him power. Late King Baudoin had deep problems with that. He could not become a friend with Mobutu. And that was the base of the grudge that Mobutu had with the belgian establishment. He felt it, he saw it in their eyes that the Belgians disliked him.
Another detail to think about: in South-Africa there are many housing projects. Millions of poor blacks live in terrible shanty towns. So the government builds nice houses. But when you drive around in SA, you see empty housing estates and full slums. What is the problem? If you want to live in such a new house, you must apply for it. That is the first main obstacle. You have to ask it in a proper way, fill in papers and wait for the procedure to have done its work. You must have a real job , a bank account , because you must pay a (very low) rent through the bank. But that is difficult! All those papers. And questions. In those new housing estates it is forbidden to keep cows and other larger animals. You cannot make new extensions to the house whenever cousins come to live with you. A big problem with the SA man is that he dislikes to have a real registered job. The money goes to his bank account and the sheriff lays a claim to the income because of child support. This is no joke or racist remark. This is what I witnessed myself in factories in Johannesburg. The men do not want to be attached. They are not lazy. But they want to keep the freedom to spent their money. Even it is on beer or local booties. The ultimate goal for many of the miners is to retire around the age of 45, sit in a chair outside their compound in the slum, grandchildren around him , several of his women, a mouth full of pap and occasionally some roasted meat and a beer. When the younger guys drop in after work, they give granddad some money for the weekly rent of the attached shed, they greet him and show respect. But where is the respect in such a new housing estate?
We live in parallel worlds.
a link:
http://home-13.tiscali-business.nl/~tpm ... eetjes.htm
Positive about those so called incompetent leaders/politicians is that they are not really evil. They perform a task, to spread welfare among their tribe, family. Example: Zaire under Mobutu or Congo under the Kabila's. Make the calculation of deaths and I know who to prefer.
Other positive remark about the African leaders: We don't see Zimbabwean stealth bombers dropping smart bombs on Buckingham Palace or Downing Street Nr. 10. We don't see a resolution of e.g. Nigeria against the USA because of WMD piled up in South-Dakota. Kenya can restraint its imperial naval force to invade Nigeria to take its oil.
Do I forget about the sudanese deaths, or the Great Lakes tragedies? I don't . I mean: the positive point of the mentality of these african leaders is that they have no global view. They are not political. They serve their clan. The few great african leaders which had global ambitions were killed, boxed in or locked up such as Nasser, Saddat, Khadafi and Mandela.
There is no danger for the western interests if sudanese militias kill some zillions of poor non-muslims. But Nasser, he was a pain in the ...And Mandela, he was a communist! So , lock him up. Saddat was killed because he didn't want to serve the weapon lobby and declared peace with Israel. And Kadhafi his stepdaughter was blown to kebab because he interfered with international affairs.
Africans and western style politics don't fit together. It doesn't work. I learned some years ago from a belgian university professor that it it useless to make a written contract with an african. A handwriting makes no sense to them. It has no value. First you must be his friend. And friends divide their wealth among eachother. Former french president Giscard d'Estaing understood this very well. He went to visit Bokasa in the central African republic. Bokasa give him young girls (alive) and handfulls of diamonds. Giscard give him power. Late King Baudoin had deep problems with that. He could not become a friend with Mobutu. And that was the base of the grudge that Mobutu had with the belgian establishment. He felt it, he saw it in their eyes that the Belgians disliked him.
Another detail to think about: in South-Africa there are many housing projects. Millions of poor blacks live in terrible shanty towns. So the government builds nice houses. But when you drive around in SA, you see empty housing estates and full slums. What is the problem? If you want to live in such a new house, you must apply for it. That is the first main obstacle. You have to ask it in a proper way, fill in papers and wait for the procedure to have done its work. You must have a real job , a bank account , because you must pay a (very low) rent through the bank. But that is difficult! All those papers. And questions. In those new housing estates it is forbidden to keep cows and other larger animals. You cannot make new extensions to the house whenever cousins come to live with you. A big problem with the SA man is that he dislikes to have a real registered job. The money goes to his bank account and the sheriff lays a claim to the income because of child support. This is no joke or racist remark. This is what I witnessed myself in factories in Johannesburg. The men do not want to be attached. They are not lazy. But they want to keep the freedom to spent their money. Even it is on beer or local booties. The ultimate goal for many of the miners is to retire around the age of 45, sit in a chair outside their compound in the slum, grandchildren around him , several of his women, a mouth full of pap and occasionally some roasted meat and a beer. When the younger guys drop in after work, they give granddad some money for the weekly rent of the attached shed, they greet him and show respect. But where is the respect in such a new housing estate?
We live in parallel worlds.
a link:
http://home-13.tiscali-business.nl/~tpm ... eetjes.htm
Re: respect for Africa (or lack thereof)
By making this statement, you have earned my respect unlike a lot of other people who speak "authoritatively" on African issues yet their knowledge of the continent is shaped solely by partisan journalism. Likewise, a lot of toursits come to African countries to seek sandy beaches, sunshine and game drives then leave the country claiming to know what the country is all about ......jan_olieslagers wrote:In all fairness I must also admit never having visited Africa, so my image of it is certainly coloured by journalism. And we know what that is worth!
Nothing could be further from the truth!Generally speaking, there is unbelievable arrogance about Africa in the west. One incident in one country is quickly generalized as representative of the entire continent. Africa is a huge continent with more than 50 countries! In each country, there are diverse cultures and different ways of doing things. These things are not said about other continents e.g. Europe etc. When something happens in Romania, it is a Romanian problem (not a European problem) but when something happens in Nigeria, it is perceived as an African problem and not a Nigerian problem. This is height of ignorance in its extreme that it borders on sin.
Western media houses are generally to blame as they fail to have balanced reporting on issues affecting or happening in Africa. Disasters etc. always receive headline news treatment but other positive developments that happen on the continent daily receive little or almost no coverage in the west. This is something that has baffled a lot of people within the continent but we take it in our stride. This state of affairs has helped fuel certain prejudices against the African continent and people. Africa is an evolving continent and will sooner rather than later surprise the Western world in more ways than one. For instance, most African economies are shaping their developments around internally generated revenues and sticking the middle finger to the so called bi-lateral donors and or world banks who only rush to offer assistance to countries when it suits their interests. The continent has woken up to the idea that trade and not aid will be the solution to most of its problems. The reality is Africa's problems will be solved using African solutions. NEPAD and its peer review mechanism is a good example of this.
That being said, air accidents happen the world over for very diverse reasons. If I recall correctly, the Alaska Airlines crash was a result of the airline cutting corners on maintenance resulting in failure of the jack screw mecahnism on the tail (will look up the Accident Report Later). This was never perceived as an American problem neither was it ever stated that aviation in America is unsafe! However, supposing Alaska was an African airline, there would have been countless reports and all that BS about the unreliability of African aviation etc etc. as appears to be the case with the Bellview 732 crash. The investigation is yet to even take firm root and fingers have been pointed at aviation in the entire continent. Bellview is just one airline, from one country, what does it have to do with aviation in the rest of the entire continent? As SN26567 puts it, it could have happened anywhere in the world for exactly the same reasons but the analysis would be prejudiced depending on where it happened. With all due respect, this is why this incident should be inconsequential to your respect (or lack thereof) for an entire continent.
cheeers
You are probably not surprised because you have a prejudiced view that the African leader is corrupt!! We the electorate are very surprised when these things happen because we have intimate knowledge of the issues at hand. This is an example of a view shaped by partisan journalism.regi wrote:The positive side of corruption in Africa (as well in many other not so western countries) is that you know before hand there will be corruption. No surprises.
I have a lot of difficulty validating the issues raised in your post. I will sleep over it and revert tomorrow. One thing is that you have almost no knowledge of the intricacies of African politics, issues of clanism and the like. That is not how it works. You would be surpised to learn that some of the poorest peoples on the continent come from the same clans/areas as their rich and corrupt leaders. You simply cannot make a generalisation about these things lest you openly portray your ignorance of African issues.
Cheers for now
To 5Y-KQV
I pointed to the general idea that westerners have about corruption and leaders/politicians in non western countries.
My remark about clans came after many discussions with people of the Directorate - euh- yes, your own Kenian directorate. (these conversations went on for 5 years in person, phone, letters and email) I was informed by senior staff members of the Directorate how things were done under the Moi dictatorship. But don't take it personnal. Caesar wrote already 2000 years ago the words "divide et impera", divide and rule. Moi applied this to his own country. The largest tribe/clan Kikuyu were put aside in favour of smaller groups.
I am not an historian. But if Directorate people told me about Kenian politics, I assume I could put some believe in their words?
I will not give their names because they are still in position - at other departments after the elections.
That many countries are fed up about the World bank and other smothering institutions I can understand. But try to explain that to the people of the Buru Buru estate (area in Nairobi) who suddenly saw how a road was privatised. (a public road was blocked off one morning and it was declared private property by an influential person)
Look, you blame westerners that we have presumptions about african leaders. But why don't you blame your leaders that they got such a bad reputation? Have you seen the documentory comparing Malaysia and Kenia? When Malaysia got independant from the UK it was poorer than Kenia. It was suffering a communist guerilla. It had terrible racial problems. Look at it today. Malaysia still has not the best record when it comes to corruption and it has institutionalised a favourite regime for the malay people against the chinese and tamil groups. But if we look at the standard of living, wealth, health, I think that the kenian leaders should bow their heads and say "sorry dear citizens, we have done a very bad job the last 40 years"
It is plain simple. All african leaders are just a bunch of crooks looking after their own clan. No exceptions. It is their fault. Simple. Nigerians, congolese, kenians, all the same. Why do you defend those guys? I feel so sorry for those hundreds of millions of africans who have no future at all. When spanish enclaves in Morrocco are stormed by hundreds of africans looking to escape deep poverty, it is the media its fault? When the onslaught goes on in the border areas in Congo , it is to blame to king Leopold 2? You seem to be a highly educated person to me . But sometimes you miss the global perspective if you are in the middle of it. A farmer doesn't smell the shit anymore, but his neighbours do.
It is up to the african leaders to prove that they are not corrupt, unefficient. The belgian foreign minister Karel de Gucht made a big stirr when he said he did not meet many african politicians qualified for the job. This was not diplomatic language. But he made a point. Why should Belgium spend tax money to fill the swiss bank accounts of african leaders? (as Belgium has done in the past with Mobutu)
I pointed to the general idea that westerners have about corruption and leaders/politicians in non western countries.
My remark about clans came after many discussions with people of the Directorate - euh- yes, your own Kenian directorate. (these conversations went on for 5 years in person, phone, letters and email) I was informed by senior staff members of the Directorate how things were done under the Moi dictatorship. But don't take it personnal. Caesar wrote already 2000 years ago the words "divide et impera", divide and rule. Moi applied this to his own country. The largest tribe/clan Kikuyu were put aside in favour of smaller groups.
I am not an historian. But if Directorate people told me about Kenian politics, I assume I could put some believe in their words?
I will not give their names because they are still in position - at other departments after the elections.
That many countries are fed up about the World bank and other smothering institutions I can understand. But try to explain that to the people of the Buru Buru estate (area in Nairobi) who suddenly saw how a road was privatised. (a public road was blocked off one morning and it was declared private property by an influential person)
Look, you blame westerners that we have presumptions about african leaders. But why don't you blame your leaders that they got such a bad reputation? Have you seen the documentory comparing Malaysia and Kenia? When Malaysia got independant from the UK it was poorer than Kenia. It was suffering a communist guerilla. It had terrible racial problems. Look at it today. Malaysia still has not the best record when it comes to corruption and it has institutionalised a favourite regime for the malay people against the chinese and tamil groups. But if we look at the standard of living, wealth, health, I think that the kenian leaders should bow their heads and say "sorry dear citizens, we have done a very bad job the last 40 years"
It is plain simple. All african leaders are just a bunch of crooks looking after their own clan. No exceptions. It is their fault. Simple. Nigerians, congolese, kenians, all the same. Why do you defend those guys? I feel so sorry for those hundreds of millions of africans who have no future at all. When spanish enclaves in Morrocco are stormed by hundreds of africans looking to escape deep poverty, it is the media its fault? When the onslaught goes on in the border areas in Congo , it is to blame to king Leopold 2? You seem to be a highly educated person to me . But sometimes you miss the global perspective if you are in the middle of it. A farmer doesn't smell the shit anymore, but his neighbours do.
It is up to the african leaders to prove that they are not corrupt, unefficient. The belgian foreign minister Karel de Gucht made a big stirr when he said he did not meet many african politicians qualified for the job. This was not diplomatic language. But he made a point. Why should Belgium spend tax money to fill the swiss bank accounts of african leaders? (as Belgium has done in the past with Mobutu)
You have fallen for the biggest mirage in Kenya's history during the Moi Era. The kikuyus were never put aside during Moi's era in favour of any of other group of communities. The most substantial economic crimes in kenya were committed by Moi and Kikuyu henchmen. The kikuyus formed a substantial part of Moi's inner circle. If he never had them on his side, his rule would not have lasted 24 years. Politics is a game of perception and I can tell you that the idea that Kikuyus were cast aside during Moi's era is a perception. You will also note that most of the people who made their $$$ during the Moi era are Kikuyu's. It depends on who you talk to. I do not know what you mean by Directorate but a balanced view is never obtained by people in any form of authority, especially where that authority is derived from political office.regi wrote:To 5Y-KQV
I pointed to the general idea that westerners have about corruption and leaders/politicians in non western countries.
My remark about clans came after many discussions with people of the Directorate - euh- yes, your own Kenian directorate. (these conversations went on for 5 years in person, phone, letters and email) I was informed by senior staff members of the Directorate how things were done under the Moi dictatorship. But don't take it personnal. Caesar wrote already 2000 years ago the words "divide et impera", divide and rule. Moi applied this to his own country. The largest tribe/clan Kikuyu were put aside in favour of smaller groups.I am not an historian. But if Directorate people told me about Kenian politics, I assume I could put some believe in their words?
I will not give their names because they are still in position - at other departments after the elections.
Which road are you talking about? The issue at stake in Buruburu was a parcel of land set aside for pulic utility. That being said, every country (Kenya included) has had its issues and will still do. These are things the country learns from and corrects. At the end of the day, corruption does not pay. Most of those influential people who acquired public property illegally have had their titles revoked and reverted back to the public, all without pressure and/or direction from any external institutions.regi wrote:But try to explain that to the people of the Buru Buru estate (area in Nairobi) who suddenly saw how a road was privatised. (a public road was blocked off one morning and it was declared private property by an influential person)
If you read my posts carefully, you will notice that I take issue with Westerners when they have a prejudiced view of Africans. I did not speak of African leaders! And yes, we always blame our leaders and if you look at the current trend in the continent, leaders who have not lived up to expectations arebing voted out of office. Kenya is a good example where Moi's system was dismantled at the ballot box. That is a start. We have a saying that says, A baby must learn to crawl before walking and running. You will realize that we have to start from somewhere to build & strengthen our institutions, learn from mistakes committed in the past, avoid them in the future and all this does not happen overnight. It is a process that takes time and will not even be completed, in the case of Kenya, with the current leaders.regi wrote:Look, you blame westerners that we have presumptions about african leaders. But why don't you blame your leaders that they got such a bad reputation?
Malaysia and SIngapore have done well and I salute them. Africa got off to a rocky start but I believe most of the countries on the continent have learnt from their mistakes and have been making great strides in the last decade. It must also be poiunted out that alot of what happened in terms of corruption and absence of rule of law was in part orchestrated by Western states, esecially at the height of the cold war. At some point, Africa is to blame for allowing herself to be used as pawns in a game that did not directly involve it but the Western states must share a portion of this too. This is why I am an advocate for homegrown solutions to African issues so that the continent can act and develop with its own interest being the priority and not the interest of any third party or state that is volatile.regi wrote:Have you seen the documentory comparing Malaysia and Kenia? When Malaysia got independant from the UK it was poorer than Kenia. It was suffering a communist guerilla. It had terrible racial problems. Look at it today. Malaysia still has not the best record when it comes to corruption and it has institutionalised a favourite regime for the malay people against the chinese and tamil groups. But if we look at the standard of living, wealth, health, I think that the kenian leaders should bow their heads and say "sorry dear citizens, we have done a very bad job the last 40 years"
I think you are over-exaggerating here. Are you trying to say that Africa cannot produce any credible leaders? What do you say of great leaders and statesmen like Festus Mogaye of Botswana, Julius Nyerere of Tanzania, Kwame Nkurumah of Ghana etc. I am sorry but I find the statement insulting that almost borders on outright racism. In europe, people like popescu are exceptions in but in Africa it is all leaders without exception??? You need to withdraw this remark before it can be dignified with any further response.regi wrote:It is plain simple. All african leaders are just a bunch of crooks looking after their own clan. No exceptions. It is their fault. Simple. Nigerians, congolese, kenians, all the same. Why do you defend those guys?
regi wrote:But sometimes you miss the global perspective if you are in the middle of it. A farmer doesn't smell the shit anymore, but his neighbours do.
And what is the global perpective? Or is it only global when it emanates from the West?
regi wrote:It is up to the african leaders to prove that they are not corrupt, unefficient.
And how do you propose they do that so that they will satisfy your view that they are all not corrupt? You have deliberately turned a blind eye to the positives that have occured especially in the last decade.
The foreign minister f#### up, plain and simple. And he did not make any point other than embarass himself. Any person at that level cannot make a blanket statement about an entire continent. He probably cannot take every country on the continent and make a case by case basis.The belgian foreign minister Karel de Gucht made a big stirr when he said he did not meet many african politicians qualified for the job. This was not diplomatic language. But he made a point.
It is a pity. You probably should stop doing so as it is no longer in your interest as it was when you were. Classic example of the African history.Why should Belgium spend tax money to fill the swiss bank accounts of african leaders? (as Belgium has done in the past with Mobutu
I hope it will not be taken personally.
Re: respect for Africa (or lack thereof)
The Nigerians have invited the NTSB to be a part of the investigation team. Once the outcome is known, hopefully it will help avoid similar accidents.jan_olieslagers wrote:As I already wanted to point out to André, my indignation was not at the crash - I fully agree with him and with you that this crash might have happened anywhere. (Actually, is there any indication yet of the cause?) And indeed I do not have the impression that statistics show more crashes in Africa than elsewhere. So be at ease, the crash as such does nothing to my opinion about Africa as a whole.
And I am at ease
. If you ever come down to Kenya, you could be my guest 
The media houses that filed incorrect reports on the incident have been suspended pending an investigation and possible sanctions in the form of fines by their regulating authority. I heard this on radio. Will check up and see if I can get any links to the story and post it.jan_olieslagers wrote:No, my bad temper was rather towards the official who sent incorrect information into the world. That seems to me typical for (some countries in) Africa: incompetent and arrogant leaders. Not to mention corruption, but I understand that plague is not restricted to Africa. More's the pity!
Cheers,
Walter
Don't worry, this is just a forum, nothing personnal.
By the way, the Directorate is the office of the president which overviews personnel affairs of civil servants.
The people who worked in the Directorate which I knew were Kikuyu and Luo.
Quite strange was that these critisizers of the Moi dictatorship were people who were thought to be loyal to him.
A big problem (for the rulers) with the Kikuyu is that the strong persons in this community are mostly women. (The men disappeared in the genocide by the brittish after the Mau Mau uprising. The women staid behind and had to be strong to raise their children. Those children are now in office. ) Powerful men have problems with this strong feminism.
Christian religion is also a strong factor in Africa and Kenya especially. I see there a blink of hope for the africans. The combination of strong women, family/social control by the tough mothers and the rules of the churches can make a turn in the african mentality - as we see it here in the west.
A new Mama Pondo is standing? (and hopefully not a new Mama Benz)
By the way, the Directorate is the office of the president which overviews personnel affairs of civil servants.
The people who worked in the Directorate which I knew were Kikuyu and Luo.
Quite strange was that these critisizers of the Moi dictatorship were people who were thought to be loyal to him.
A big problem (for the rulers) with the Kikuyu is that the strong persons in this community are mostly women. (The men disappeared in the genocide by the brittish after the Mau Mau uprising. The women staid behind and had to be strong to raise their children. Those children are now in office. ) Powerful men have problems with this strong feminism.
Christian religion is also a strong factor in Africa and Kenya especially. I see there a blink of hope for the africans. The combination of strong women, family/social control by the tough mothers and the rules of the churches can make a turn in the african mentality - as we see it here in the west.
A new Mama Pondo is standing? (and hopefully not a new Mama Benz)
Don't worry about it buddy. No offence taken. Discussion and disagreement is very healthy.regi wrote:Don't worry, this is just a forum, nothing personnal.
There are many Directorate Offices. The one you are referring to is called the Direcotrate of Personnel Management (DPM).regi wrote:By the way, the Directorate is the office of the president which overviews personnel affairs of civil servants.
Isn't that what politics is sometimes about. Allegiances shift faster than the speed of the concordeThe people who worked in the Directorate which I knew were Kikuyu and Luo.
Quite strange was that these critisizers of the Moi dictatorship were people who were thought to be loyal to him.
This is part of the reason. Another part is the Kikuyu history where the women were the heads of the families, the chiefs etc. whilst the men were "house husbands" who raised the kids, tilled the land and other domestic chores. The men plotted against the women by making them all pregnant and took over the reins of power when the women were at their weakest (this is a true part of the Kikuyu history). This happened during the rein of Wangu wa Makeri. With this cultural background, Kikuyu women are generally strong and independent.regi wrote:A big problem (for the rulers) with the Kikuyu is that the strong persons in this community are mostly women. (The men disappeared in the genocide by the brittish after the Mau Mau uprising. The women staid behind and had to be strong to raise their children. Those children are now in office. )
Well .... what is the african mentality?regi wrote:Powerful men have problems with this strong feminism.
Christian religion is also a strong factor in Africa and Kenya especially. I see there a blink of hope for the africans. The combination of strong women, family/social control by the tough mothers and the rules of the churches can make a turn in the african mentality - as we see it here in the west.
Cheers,
Walter
Sorry to hear that Captain. Hope your next experiences will be better. Both good and bad experiences are found everywhere & Africa is no unique exception.CaptainEd wrote:All of my Sub-African experiences have been negative. I sailed the W. African coast in the Merchant Marine, and flew the TWA routes to Nairobi, Kenya, Entebe, Dar-es-Salam, etc..
My my, I am not surprised. Corruption, poverty, crime etc are global issues and not unique to Liberia or Africa for that matter. The last couple of months have been very revealing in this aspect ...........CaptainEd wrote:Liberia was the worst. Corruption is rampant almost everywhere, along with filth, poverty, crime, you name it.
It appears your trip to Africa must have been a long time ago judging from the TWA routings you have mentioned. You would be most welcome back and i hope this time round, you will have some positive experiences.
Cheers,
Walter.
Walter,
Yes, it was a VERY long time ago, 1951 when I was Deck Cadet USMMA aboard the MV Del Rio out of New Orleans. I was a 20 year old Third Classman.
I was assigned to the MV Del Rio as Deck Cadet, a small freighter, with a 9kt. speed. Nice quarters,
excellent food, stood deck watches on the Bridge. Capt. Cornforth was
Master. What a character. A crusty old Englisman.
Hit several Gulf ports, loading with general cargo for Africa. Then the
crossing. First port of call was Dakar, Senegal, which was French at the
time. Dusty, miserable place. Got my first and only camel ride. Discharged
general cargo. On the return trip, we loaded tons and tons of peanuts.
Next was Monrovia, Liberia - The Negro Republic. Whites forbidden by their
Constitution. (Nothing racist about that, right?). They had to make an
exception for a Dutchman - he was the harbor pilot. They didn't have anyone
in all of Liberia who they could trust with the job.
"Customs Agents" boarded. I was surprised to see they were all women, in
uniform, except one man. It turns out they were all prostitutes, and he was
their Pimp Daddy.
I was invited to visit The Firestone Plantation, a segregated, walled place
for whites who ran the place. Rubber was Liberia's only real export, and it
was here that the American whites lived, and ran the operation. We
discharged manufactured goods, and loaded rubber on the return trip. The
place was filthy. We took on about 20 men from the Kru tribe. They would
accompany us down the coast and back. They were good at working the cargo
gear, as well as loading and unloading. They set up a tent on the aft hatch,
and lived there. We provided them with rice, and galley leftovers, and steam
from our donkey boiler for cooking. They set up an outrigger toilet, and
were generally a good bunch. They appeared to be more North African in
appearance than the Sub-Sahara blacks.
Yes, it was a VERY long time ago, 1951 when I was Deck Cadet USMMA aboard the MV Del Rio out of New Orleans. I was a 20 year old Third Classman.
I was assigned to the MV Del Rio as Deck Cadet, a small freighter, with a 9kt. speed. Nice quarters,
excellent food, stood deck watches on the Bridge. Capt. Cornforth was
Master. What a character. A crusty old Englisman.
Hit several Gulf ports, loading with general cargo for Africa. Then the
crossing. First port of call was Dakar, Senegal, which was French at the
time. Dusty, miserable place. Got my first and only camel ride. Discharged
general cargo. On the return trip, we loaded tons and tons of peanuts.
Next was Monrovia, Liberia - The Negro Republic. Whites forbidden by their
Constitution. (Nothing racist about that, right?). They had to make an
exception for a Dutchman - he was the harbor pilot. They didn't have anyone
in all of Liberia who they could trust with the job.
"Customs Agents" boarded. I was surprised to see they were all women, in
uniform, except one man. It turns out they were all prostitutes, and he was
their Pimp Daddy.
I was invited to visit The Firestone Plantation, a segregated, walled place
for whites who ran the place. Rubber was Liberia's only real export, and it
was here that the American whites lived, and ran the operation. We
discharged manufactured goods, and loaded rubber on the return trip. The
place was filthy. We took on about 20 men from the Kru tribe. They would
accompany us down the coast and back. They were good at working the cargo
gear, as well as loading and unloading. They set up a tent on the aft hatch,
and lived there. We provided them with rice, and galley leftovers, and steam
from our donkey boiler for cooking. They set up an outrigger toilet, and
were generally a good bunch. They appeared to be more North African in
appearance than the Sub-Sahara blacks.
The Belgians colonized the Congo, of course. We sailed upriver as far as Leopoldville. This was a garden spot in an otherwise bleak area. Fine taverns and restraunts, clean streets, law and order prevailed. The Belgian Police had a short stout rubber hose which was apparently weighted with lead at the end. They used it freely.
We did Matadi and Ango-Ango on the return to the coast. Matadi was a fairly nice spot, Ango-Ango was just a dock with a railroad connection, and a small village.
From the ship I could see the remains of a lion on the tracks. Nobody seemed to pay any attention to it except the vultures.
We did Matadi and Ango-Ango on the return to the coast. Matadi was a fairly nice spot, Ango-Ango was just a dock with a railroad connection, and a small village.
From the ship I could see the remains of a lion on the tracks. Nobody seemed to pay any attention to it except the vultures.
Agreed!! I salute you for this great idea. At least this way, we can digress without attracting the wrath of the moderatorsjan_olieslagers wrote:I opened this thread here in the pub for this very reason - a wider variety of subjects can be tolerated when hanging at the bar!
Patron! Nog zes bollekes!
I am not surprised at the expriences you had then but I can assure you the continent has undergone considerable and tangible change since 1951. I am sure that on a current visit, your experiences will be a lot more pleasant.CaptainEd wrote:Walter,
Yes, it was a VERY long time ago, 1951 when I was Deck Cadet USMMA aboard the MV Del Rio out of New Orleans. I was a 20 year old Third Classman.
Cheers,
Walter