Continental in Brussels - twice a day?

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 27 Aug 2005, 15:59

Hi all,

Just saw in the airliners.net forum a discussion on Continental in Brussels. There is a rumour that they will start in Summer 2006 with second flight Newark-Brussels. Instead of one 767-400 they would go for one 757-200 and one 767-200 flight (morning and evening flight??). Would be a good move, not?

Did anyone hear about this too (besides reading it on airliners.net)?

Danny

Jense · Post by **Jense** » 27 Aug 2005, 16:28

A.net source: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/ge ... n/2296362/

Atlantis · Post by **Atlantis** » 27 Aug 2005, 18:17

That would be great, two CO at Brussels! I know that the business to Newark it very good, it wouldn't surprise me.
Or could it be that they want to compete with Jet Airways on this route?

waldova · Post by **waldova** » 27 Aug 2005, 18:41

Maybe it will be a Brussels-Houston route. They have their hub there! Anyway to continental fligths would be great for Bru!!

Post by **Apuneger** » 27 Aug 2005, 18:48

Awhile ago I heard a rumour (!!!!!) that CO was considering to fly to BRU with a 777 instead of the 767-400.

I'd rather see one 777 a day than the 757-200 and 767-200.

I think they need all their 777's for more profitable routes then. Too bad...

Ivan

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 27 Aug 2005, 19:34

CO have done this at MAN

av8or_guy · Post by **av8or_guy** » 27 Aug 2005, 20:45

hurrah! a B752WL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! nice 8) plus a b762 ok but damn the B752 its gonna be funn spotting

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 27 Aug 2005, 20:58

Awhile ago I heard a rumour (!!!!!) that CO was considering to fly to BRU with a 777 instead of the 767-400.

If they put an extra marketing effort CO can easily fill a 777
BUT they need these aircraft for their international expansion plans.
For the moment it will stay a dream

Maybe it will be a Brussels-Houston route. They have their hub there! Anyway to continental fligths would be great for Bru!!

That would be great indeed... but I don't think this will happen soon.
CO will concentrate on skyteam partners AMS and CDG (KLM and Air France). They have a virtual monopoly now for the Houston flights in AMS and CDG. Why would they arm themselves in this.
Despite this it would make sense to open such a direct Houston air link out of BRU with the huge petrochemical industry in Belgium.

That would be great, two CO at Brussels! I know that the business to Newark it very good, it wouldn't surprise me.
Or could it be that they want to compete with Jet Airways on this route?

The numbers (PAX) are very good but I think that three daily flights (a few times a week) to EWR are a little bit to much business for BRU.

We will see what will happen...?
Personally I'm not a big fan for two smaller 757 flights, I like the current 767-400 flight. Next week I will fly CO again !
I think the "BRU business world" isn't waiting for two daily CO flights.

greetings,
ATC

MSS658 · Post by **MSS658** » 27 Aug 2005, 20:59

i hope they put one later in the afternoon
cuz all ex-bru flights leave within a 3-hour period
(8:30,9,:50,10:10,11:10)
ideal shedule would be

BRU-EWR
9:50-12:00
14:00-16:30

EWR-BRU
19:00-8:20
22:10-11:30

Post by **sn26567** » 28 Aug 2005, 09:33

A CO 757? Great! They have 757s with winglets (rather unique)!

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 28 Aug 2005, 10:09

ATC wrote: The numbers (PAX) are very good but I think that three daily flights (a few times a week) to EWR are a little bit to much business for BRU.

I think the "BRU business world" isn't waiting for two daily CO flights.

greetings,
ATC

I don't know. I think going from one B767-400 to two is better for business. Not because there would be more seats as such, but you would be able to make a choice between a morning and late afternoon or evening flight. This makes a big difference and could attract more people and fill the additional capacity. Don't forget that the evening flight of former Sabena was a relative success (pax-wise) ...

Danny

OO-VEX · Post by **OO-VEX** » 28 Aug 2005, 12:23

I have some remarks about Continental changing equipment on their Brussels flight.

It seems that CO needs bigger planes for new routes. This makes me believe that increasing capacity on the EWR-BRU route is not their main objective. Off course increasing capacity is most likely to happen when replacing 1 flight by 2.

What are the possibilities?

Right now, CO is offering in their B764 35 seats in Business and 200 in Economy class.

B777: not possible for the above reason.

2 B757's: This would give the following capacity: 32 in Business and 312 in Economy. I don't think this would be a good choice, as this would be a decrease of their Business capacity. I think that loads and yields are very good in BRU, so decreasing Business class wouldn't be the right move.

B762 and B757: 41 in business and 305 in Economy. I believe this is the best option for CO.
But even now I have my doubts if this capacity would not be too much for the EWR-BRU route. Do not forget that by next summer Jet Airways should fly this route daily with an A343. I have no idea which capacity of the Airbus will be available for BRU pax, but we can be sure that 9W also wants a part of the market.

Therefore I fear that a capacity increase from 35 to 41 in Business and 200 to 305 would be too much. Remember that increasing capacity doesn't seem to be their main purpose. A possibility for CO could be to offer daily B762 flights and e.g. 5 weekly B757 flights.

Here are figures for a week:
daily B764: 245 Business 1400 Economy
daily B762 and B757: 287 Business 2135 Economy
daily B762 and 5 weekly B757: 255 Business 1823 Economy

I don't have market figures, but a daily B762 and 5 weekly B757 seems to be the best option as it still offers enough seats in Business and even increases the capacity in Economy. If the route is doing very well, CO could always offer 1 or 2 extra flights in the future.

What do you think about this strategy?

OO-VEX

744rules · Post by **744rules** » 28 Aug 2005, 12:37

Note that a 757 transatlantic is very often payload (= weight) restricted. Ik can probably fly with its maximum pax capacity, but I doubt about the cargo. For many airlines, this revenue is very important to make a route profitable.

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 28 Aug 2005, 14:39

Interesting post, Koen! Thank you!

OO-VEX wrote:But even now I have my doubts if this capacity would not be too much for the EWR-BRU route. Do not forget that by next summer Jet Airways should fly this route daily with an A343. I have no idea which capacity of the Airbus will be available for BRU pax, but we can be sure that 9W also wants a part of the market.

Attracting lot's of passengers on the BRU-EWR-BRU isn't the main goal of 9W I think. A small calculation:

Jet Airways has 38 seats in Business Class, and 231 in Economy Class on the A343.
Imagine that 45 people buy a ticket between BRU and EWR, and 25 people between BRU and BOM (with possibly a connection in BOM on the expanding 9W-network, and don't forget the SN codeshare so SN will attract feeder passengers). This means that already +/- 25% of the capacity of the A343 has been taken by local BRU pax. When you know that the main objective of 9W is a flight from BOM to EWR with a (necessary) stopover in BRU, it probably isn't their intention to attract for example 100 local BRU-passengers on each flight.

On the other hand, I'm quite sure that we will see some attractive fares on the BRU-EWR-BRU segment. Not to attract lot's of local passengers, but to fill the remaining (empty) seats.

BOM-EWR is a priority for 9W, not BRU-EWR.

Does CO have to be scared? Yes and no. Yes, because it won't improve the yields as more capacity generally means lower fares (resulting in a lower yield), but also no because I think that CO attracts quite a lot of connecting passengers (flying BRU-EWR-BOS only to give one example).

There is certainly a market for an afternoon departure to the Big Apple in my opinion, and the combination of a B762 in the morning and a B752 in the afternoon looks good in my eyes.

And like you say, CO doesn't have to go double daily on every day. Tuesday is one of the quieter days for flights to the US if I'm not mistaken, so a frequency of 12 flights a week would make sense.

Regards
Frederic

Humberside · Post by **Humberside** » 28 Aug 2005, 19:46

Jet Airways only want BRU passengers to fill seats it cant fill with India-US passengers

Jean · Post by **Jean** » 29 Aug 2005, 23:44

IF CO were to fly a 757 to Brussels, i consider that to be a downgrade of their product! A 757 on a long flight like that is just not a good idea, flying a one-aisled plane is making it very uncomfortable for pax, flights of CO to the UK have had serieus complaints about that!

Apart from the equipment, i think a second flight would make sense to them, and as i flew them this summer, i see CO as a good company and wish them all the luck, if they were to announce a second flight!

But these are only rumours...

MSS658 · Post by **MSS658** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:48

BRU is not alone
CO is clearing all 777 from Europe Routes and putting them on routes like EWR-DEL/TLV/NRT/HKG
so they have to use the 764 for the high demand routes EWR-LGW for example so what results for BRU no 764 and will be replaced by 752/762

Vinnie-Winnie · Post by **Vinnie-Winnie** » 30 Aug 2005, 10:58

Pretty small market Pretty small aircraft! That's unfortunately what happens most of the time!

Shouldn't we just be happy about being able to fly to America straight from Brussels! Just checked luxembourg- New-york flights on amadeus and you always need to transit through another airport in order to reach NY!

So let's just be happy that they are considering adding a 2nd flight!

sn-remember · Post by **sn-remember** » 30 Aug 2005, 13:40

Jean_EVA_Air wrote:IF CO were to fly a 757 to Brussels, i consider that to be a downgrade of their product! A 757 on a long flight like that is just not a good idea, flying a one-aisled plane is making it very uncomfortable for pax, flights of CO to the UK have had serieus complaints about that!

What's the difference between a one-aisled and a two-aisled plane in terms of comfort ?
You can have a lot of (dis)comfort in both alike depending on the leg room , size of the seat or quality of the of equipment available.
It's up to the company's policy to define the comfort sandards it is willing to implement.
Personally I think you can perfectly enjoy a transatlantic flight on a smaller one-aisled twin-engine airliner . remember a recent initiative from Rotterdam to NewYork in B737 ? I would like to try it some day

EBAW_flyer · Post by **EBAW_flyer** » 30 Aug 2005, 14:14

Don't forget that the evening flight of former Sabena was a relative success (pax-wise) ...

Because the SN flight was the last NY flight out of Europe and all the overbooked/rescheduled pax were transfered on this flight.