New National Airport?

killerwhale65 · Post by **killerwhale65** » 13 Sep 2003, 12:20

I just heard the news, and "de Guy" announced that he wants to investigate if it would be possible to build a second national airport (apart from BRU). If it has to come right next to BRU or not, he didn't wanna say.

What do you all think about that: should there be a second one? And if so, what should be the best location?

744rules · Post by **744rules** » 13 Sep 2003, 12:59

For who did they build the a-pier

Maybe, in future, they can remove the airbridges and allow the the crj-arj to drive thru the terminal. Space is no problem, as this will be the main traffic anyway

. Why not combining it with a brand new bus- and trainstation so pax can transfer even faster

TheSpecialist · Post by **TheSpecialist** » 13 Sep 2003, 13:21

Following my opinion, I don't think we need another national airport. Currently our airport can still develop at its current place and isn't even at its maximum.

There are some expanding possibilities:
- adding some meters to the new A-pier (which is possible and forseen in the building)
- leaving of the military (following a thesis by Ivan Coninx about the airport)

Greetz

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 13 Sep 2003, 13:29

I have a mixed opinion about it.

POSITIVE
- a second aiport is good for the international caracter of Brussels City
- two airports will increase the total number of passengers travel to Brussels
- their will be a competition between the two Brussels Airports, good for the travellingpeople, they will have a choice now.

NEGATIVE
- is brussels big enough for two national airports ?
- the current investments made in Zaventem are good for more than 30milj passangers-traffic a year. With the 20milj now, they have a lot off overcapacity.
- Is it good that BIAC controls the 2 Brussels aiports ??? (competition ?)
- Isn't it better that the Belgian governement invests more in the current Zaventem aiport to become a european top 5 player.
for example: the high-speed station...?

Never the less, the governement understands the need off a good aviation network. And they want to invest in that. This statement of the prime minister is never bad for the belgian aviation world.

your reactions ?

Greetz,
ATC

744rules · Post by **744rules** » 13 Sep 2003, 14:00

Somehow, I don't get the logic of the Belgian/Flemish government. On one hand they talk about a second (inter)national airport, on the other hand some of them would do the impossible to close down some existing airports such as Ostend and Liège.

8O

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 13 Sep 2003, 14:28

official press release VRT-nieuws

Verhofstadt wil een tweede luchthaven

Premier Verhofstadt wil laten onderzoe-
ken of er een nieuwe nationale lucht-
haven kan komen naast de huidige in
Zaventem.

Dat zei hij bij de opening van de jaar-
beurs in Gent. Verhofstadt vindt dat de
bouw van een tweede luchthaven past in
een reeks van grote infrastructuurwer-
ken voor de volgende jaren.

Verhofstadt heeft Biac, de uitbater van
de luchthaven van Zaventem, gevraagd om
het project voor te bereiden.

Oud-minister Luc Van den Bossche, nu
hoofd van Biac, bevestigt de vraag maar
wil zich nog niet uitspreken over de
plaats van een nieuwe luchthaven

english
Prime minister Verhofstadt wants a research about a second airport besides the international airport "Zaventem".

He made this statement at Ghent. He thinks the building of a second airport fitts in a larger investement program for the coming years.
He asked BIAC, the leading company of Brussels International Airport (Zaventem) to prepare this project.

Former minister Luc Van den Bossche, now the CEO of BIAC, confirms this demand from the prime minister, but doesn't confirm the location of this new airport.

greetz,
ATC

Post by **sn26567** » 13 Sep 2003, 16:27

Are politicians getting crazy in this crazy country? Is there a second airport in AMS, which is much, much bigger than BRU?

My answer is NO, definitely NO. At least as long as the airport remains truly national and the Flemish govt. does not want to take it over. If the airport is to become a regional Flemish airport, than only, there will need to be another true national airport.

liebensd · Post by **liebensd** » 13 Sep 2003, 18:56

I think that the problem is that the politicians don't know where they are talking about. On the radio, told a trafic specialist that ther is NO need fo a second airport, the capacity of Zaventem is only used for 50%. The only problem are the night flights.

Greetz,

Dave

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 13 Sep 2003, 19:02

ATC wrote:- two airports will increase the total number of passengers travel to Brussels
- the current investments made in Zaventem are good for more than 30m passangers-traffic a year. With the 20m now, they have a lot off overcapacity.
This statement of the prime minister is never bad for the belgian aviation world. your reactions ? Greetz,ATC

Dear ATC, Let me say this: IF, I say, If you buy a second bike, will you then do more miles?
NOT the airport creates the traffic, the airlines create that. Airports facilitate it. But as you say there is a lot off overcapacity.
Guy and his gang killed SN, now they want to build a cemetery...
As you all surely know, building earned politics lots of money... After the high ways, the ring round Brussels, seaports, river and canal locks, bridges, all these things called in Belgium "work of art" (kunstwerken, you understand what the kunst is?), there is hardly something left to build. Maybe a concrete wall around Belgium, or a... new airport. But I 'am afraid the majority of the Belgians would not agree with the wall, so a new airport it will be.

But allow me to expose my idea about the problem.
The nearness of the airport is to nobody a problem, it is the nearness of the runways. So here is my idea: FIND new run ways. And BRU.N I hear you say. Leave it where it is. Make it the Tempelhof of Brussels, with friendly airlines that operate friendly aircraft. With runways open weekdays between 07.00 and 19.00, in the weekends between 08.00 and 18.00!
Before, during and after the remote runway is used for the more heavy and noisy traffic. For my part that could be CRL (It is for sales, and studies for extension of the runway are made..)
BRU.N remains like it is, but is linked to the remote runway with a Transrapid as Shanghai is linked. Passengers do their normal check in @ BRU.N, go to the gates, that are boarding points of the transrapid train that bring them directly to the runway air bridges, where the airplanes are ready. Passengers board while the baggage containers come off the train into the aircraft.
CRL is 50km distant, that would take the Transrapid a few minutes...

The 31.5 kilometer route in Shanghai connects the financial district of the metropolis with the city's new international airport Pudong.

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 13 Sep 2003, 19:36

sn26567 wrote:Are politicians getting crazy in this crazy country?
At least as long as the airport remains truly national and the Flemish govt. does not want to take it over. If the airport is to become a regional Flemish airport, than only, there will need to be another true national airport.

Communitary problemsolving is not a economical solution.
Over 70% of the Belgians departing or arriving @ BRU.N are Flemish, and so contributing with their airport taxes to the operation of the 'national' airport. So what?
But a good economical thinking path would be to have millions of foreigners to come and pay for that airport, called BRU.N.

My answer to your Q is yes, but that is known by everybody...

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 13 Sep 2003, 19:38

This confirms once again that for the politicians, Brussels is only an electoral toy.

What are they actually thinking???

And all this due to the moaning people who first build their houses around the airport, and than complain about the noise??

I live very close to 2 busy railways (one on the left side and one on the right side of my home). Do I complain about trains???

Regards
Frederic

Zorba · Post by **Zorba** » 13 Sep 2003, 19:47

Oh my dear god!! Why would someone can be so stupid??? Why would someone tell that BRU is to Bussy at this moment?

I'm

to be a Belgian right now ... I'm sorry

Regards!

Rutger

Post by **airbuske** » 13 Sep 2003, 20:09

Belgian goverment is crazy !!!
No second airport!

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 13 Sep 2003, 20:11

Sabena_690 wrote:I live very close to 2 busy railways (one on the left side and one on the right side of my home). Do I complain about trains???
Regards Frederic

It looks like you live in a sign house, Frederic...

Or are you working with the railways?

Zorba · Post by **Zorba** » 13 Sep 2003, 20:38

Hi all,

You can review the news on the VRT website : http://www.vrtnieuws.net

A reporter sais : "At this moment the capacity of Zaventem is only used with 50%, and it doesn't seems that the traffic will grow much in the next few years"

" Last year, Zaventem asimilated 14 Million passengers, three years ago, this was still 21 million passengers"

"There are 20.000 people who work on Zaventem, undirect there are 50.000 people who work at Zaventem"

I hope my sentecenses are spelled the right way

Regards,
Rutger

Sabena_690 · Post by **Sabena_690** » 13 Sep 2003, 21:28

LOL Fons!

Well, the one is about 100 metres from my house, the other one is a bit further, but trains are still very loud when the wind direction comes from there!

Regards
Frederic

ATC · Post by **ATC** » 13 Sep 2003, 21:46

Does anybody has the e-mail off Guy Verhofstadt.

I would like to send him a copy if this topic.
I know this will not change his mind, but I would feel myself better if I send him a friendly mail.

Dear ATC, Let me say this: IF, I say, If you buy a second bike, will you then do more miles?

My friend SN30952, if I had two bikes. I can choose between them. And I'll probably take the better and faster one. And I think if one had two bikes he probably likes to ride with a bike every day.

My point,
offcourse a second airport will not double the traffic, but I think that it would increase ...

Don't understand my wrong, I'm not for a second airport, because Zaventem has only been used for 50% now. I think everybody will agree with that. Like I said before, the government should better invest more money and time in the current airport Zaventem. :dammit:
For example: a good and sollid arrangement for the flights at night and a good transportation plan for the futur (the near futur).

respect for the aviation people at www.luchtzak.be, I'm happy their is still some logic sence into this world. :thumbsup2:

greetz,
ATC

777 · Post by **777** » 13 Sep 2003, 23:22

The Belgians are really crazy. Where can we waste some more money, maybe another "travaux innutile" ??

Today at Zaventem you see less movement in or outside the terminals than before nov.2001(when Sabena went bust).
So there is plenty of space left especially after the construction of Pier A.

Zaventem is part of the flemish community, so is it not simply another "communautair problem" ???

Anyway my answer is NO to a second airport.

In the Netherlands, Amsterdam Schiphol is also the only airport for a small country like The Netherlands or Belgium.

I do not see a single possitive point for this issue. It could only split the SAME CAKE in two, with both airports suffering.

It will certainly not change much to the Brussels image ??!!

There are very few international/intercontinental flights to and from Brussels compared to the 60's, 70's and 80's.

Andre

[/list]

SN30952 · Post by **SN30952** » 14 Sep 2003, 12:08

Sabena_690 wrote:LOL Fons! trains are still very loud when the wind direction comes from there! Regards Frederic

GOOD LOL Frederic, It's blowing in the wind.

Some people forget we are living in an environment...
People complain about the weather, too much rain, too hot etc etc....
But that is the way it is...
Winds may blow sounds in some one's direction... some times smells...
My mother says: You cannot make an omelette without breaking an egg.
It looks to me from here, that people want only the advantages of the wealth they're living in (and in most cases they did not create...)
Seashores will bring fresh air, but in some areas also waste.
Airports will bring prosperity, but also noise.

Now, when you know that 80% of the world population is living in band of approx. 100km near the sea, you will understand that also the biggest airports are situated there...
In China Shanghai is the biggest city... Tokyo, Seoul, Los Angeles, New York, London, Buenos Aires, Kinskasa, Melbourne.. do I have to make a longer list...

So people create their environment... their wastes, pollutions etc, etc
Much of this you cannot illiminate, only reduce.
Or go live in the mountains... (the solution for (pre-)retired people)

DannyVDB · Post by **DannyVDB** » 14 Sep 2003, 17:05

O Dear ...

I read with some delay the 'news' about the 'ideas' of Guy VH.

Several problems with this 'idea': first of all there is currently no real need for it.

Secondly, preparing large scale works like new airports needs a true spatial planning ! This is totally absent.

If you look at the satelite images of Belgium and especially the Flemish region, it is completely build up (and not because many people live on a small area!).

What should be done is to take now measures for the surroundings of Zaventem Airport (e.g. no new houses, block certain zones for the future, prepare 'green' buffers, ...). This can be done, but it needs political will and a clear strategy. The strategy now should be to develop the existing airport for the next 30 years or so (believe me travel and freight will continue to grow).

And lastly, one should think about- and investigate the needs for within 50 years or so. But not the 'Belgians' only, but at a European scale. The Frensh and the Dutch are doing so ...

There exist perfect models to simulate what is necessary by x% or y% development over the next years. These models can even 'indicate' where the most appropriate place would be to add new nodes in the (mulit-modal) network. But again, this asks for real future vision(s) and planning ... I think this is a 'dirty' word for our politicians!

That's my opinion,
Danny

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