2 additional frequencies to D.R.C. for Brussels Airlines

[AirOpinion]

What would cheap travelling Africans contribute to our society?
In this case I would rather have one airline transporting pax in a very controlled environment than a free market where the only concerns is the ticket price.

[travellover]

What would cheap travelling Africans contribute to our society?
In this case I would rather have one airline transporting pax in a very controlled environment than a free market where the only concerns is the ticket price.

Simplicism ! A part of the african people working and contributing the whole year to Belgium, in despite of this fact, need cheaper alternatives (as some belgians travelling to Africa). So if SN needs to consolidate its african market (and FIH) for high yield passengers, JAF is a real alternative for other travellers avoiding SN anyway ! I know someone who took Ethiopian BRU-ADD-FIH last winter to save 350€ compared to SN Y CLASS

[Flanker2]

Hahahha market protectionism versus open market. I was wondering whether JAF could complain to the EC, well now we know. This is going to be interesting.

Both have good points, JAF want to compete on a monopoly route and the route is not Europe-DRC but Belgium-DRC. Let's be reminded that the DRC is a former Belgian colony, and that there is a direct tie there.
SN may want to develop their own hub in FBM.

From a purely competitive point of view, I see an issue for SN and the government here. Providing open competition has a much heavier weight than microscopic, doubtful and unpredictable economic effects.
As minister of transportation, Wathelet has a duty to be impartial and fair towards all airlines, while he seems really like a big fan of SN's.

IMO, from the moment that they start forgiving loans, they are in deeper than they should. It's like someone who bought into a pyramid scheme, who would try to recup his losses at all costs.
Converting a loan into profit-sharing would normally be considered as a capital investment by the government and Europe isn't very fond on that.

[BRU]

Brussels Airlines will use the 2 additional frequencies to have 7 frequencies of their own, so no more need to use (pay for...) 2 rights of LAC to make it to 7 flights a week. They have been doing this already for quite some time, so think that is also a valid reason why the governement started negotiating in the frist place (on request of brussels airlines) and why brussels airlines probably got them. When did JAF started asking for these rights ? And why not take over these rights from LAC ?

As long as their is no fair competition on a global scale (cheap fuel in the Middle East, unlimitted funding, cheap labor, ...) it will be difficult to organise complete liberalisation of air transport. A lot of countries still consider this sector to be a vital part for their economy. So although against it, can understand why there are still restrictions and limitations. This is the same in other industries. That's why for some products you pay additional import fees when importing them from outside Europe (and same is done in USA, China, ...).

[JAFflyer]

On the taxation level there is one more thing to be added. JAF is not carrying cargo at this moment, nor is it planning to do so (as far as I know). So as for national trades interests, SN is the one to go for.

JAF is not carrying cargo? Really? Our flights to BRU from PUJ and CUN are loaded with cargo to max take-off weight. During the earthquake in Haïti we even offered all our cargo capacity for free to the red cross on flights to PUJ. Also on Europe we carry cargo to several destinations...

If I was wrong about it, my mistake.
As you are so sure about it, I guess you can tell me the 3 digit airline code that precedes the airway bill?

I get the manifests in the cockpit before departure, other than reading what the cargo is and how much the weight is, I don't really study the airwaybill...


Good to see that JAF files a complaint. At least it allows us to know what Wathelet's official reasons are other than: they told me to give it to SN...

[BrightCedars]

With SN already have 7 weekly frequencies and not having reached daily each-way nonstop A380 service I don't see the need for them to be given the additional frequency. The benefit of 2 extra frequencies for business travellers when there already is daily service on such a route is insignificant.

I can see a point if SN will use these frequencies to server another point in the DRC namely FBM.

As far as the vast majority of consumers is concerned, I'm sure some competition on one of the key routes our of BRU wouldn't have hurt their wallet.

[airazurxtror]

"yet another proof that there is only one airline for the Belgian government and it is Brussels Airlines. We will not allow things to happen that way and we will lodge a complaint with the European Commission. Brussels Airlines already has a monopoly on this road and it has now even the help of the government, says Gunther Hofman, CEO of Jetairfly.

Quite so.
And the European Commission doesn't take kindly the monopolistic situations ...
Let's wait and see.

[airbuske]

Ok there is only one direct route from BRU to FIH, that's right.
But there is competition: TK , AF, ET , AT.
Can we talk about an monopoly?

[airazurxtror]

Monopoly : exclusive ownership through legal privilege.
Brussels Airlines has (and would like to keep) a monopoly on the Brussels-Kinshasa route.

[BRU]

As mentioned before: in today's aviation this is part of the business. So brussels airlines is not doing anything that others are not doing or that is not common in this world. So unless you have worldwide full deregulation and fair competition, what is the problem ??

[OO-ITR]

Jetairfly: complaint with the European Commission
Jetairfly has introduced a complaint to the European Commission, following a decision of the Secretary of State for Mobility, Melchior Wathelet. The latter has decided to award two additional frequencies between Brussels and the Congolese capital of Kinshasa to Brussels Airlines.

Typical JAF...

[Pocahontas]

Tom Waes will fly the first BRU-FIH for JAF.

[sn26567]

Who is Tom Waes?

[OO-ITR]

Who is Tom Waes?

A TV host who flew with a JAF B737 for this TV show and got JAF almost in trouble with the BCAA

[Conti764]

Like it or not, but the Belgian government is not there to facilitate the cheapest possible flights for Congoleese living in Belgium; it is there to defend the economic interests of Belgium and in this case, those are best served by helping to strengthen the hub in BRU. The last thing our government should be considering is turning BRU into a sort of a CRL for ethnic travellers, with good passenger numbers, but with little or no added value whatsoever.

Juicy !
In other words, SN is there to help strenghten BRU, BRU main goal presumably being to strenghten SN ?
The interest of the customers are put far down the line, as usual ...
The good old Sabena mentality is still alive and well, gentlemen !

BRU and SN should and are finally working together to strengthen both companies to attract more passengers, cargo and thus revenue, providing jobs for thousands of employees on the airport and with Brussels Airlines and even companies around who are not strictly limited to the airport. Besides that very valet argument, it increases traffic at BRU and in the mid to long term gives SN the possibilities to open up new routes and attract foreign carriers, resulting in more direct flights to more different destinations from the main airport of Belgium. Win win situation.

The problem on this forum is that too many people favor their airline and/or their airport (or even themselve) and thus forget the bigger pichture and rather see a company go bust to either prove they are right or to have their sweatheart airline or airport 'win'.

I don't understand where all this bias against Brussels Airlines comes from... Okay, you have the FR and JAF-lovers on this forum, but let's not forget that neither of those companies would do a great job from Belgium if they weren't only parts of much larger entities. Take JAF as example, where would they stand if they weren't part of the much larger TUI group? Nog 787's, no everlasting introduction of brand new 737's and definately no profit like they have today.

I strongly believe SN should be protected in very bad economic times when the company is still struggling from its predecessor going bust.

[BrightCedars]

I wouldn't blame Brussels Airlines and doing what it can to help itself, fortunately they do, I do blame the authority for not having the consumer's benefit as their primary motivation.

[Conti764]

Less activity for SN would be more activity for JAF.

IF JAF would replace SN one on one, which would never happen.

Less activity for SN and in the longer term the risk of going bust, just generates far more activity for AF, KL, LH, IB,... you name it and only slightler more acitivity for JAF.

Not supporting SN would, in the longer term, mean more money going to companies abroad.

[Conti764]

With SN already have 7 weekly frequencies and not having reached daily each-way nonstop A380 service I don't see the need for them to be given the additional frequency. The benefit of 2 extra frequencies for business travellers when there already is daily service on such a route is insignificant.

I can see a point if SN will use these frequencies to server another point in the DRC namely FBM.

As far as the vast majority of consumers is concerned, I'm sure some competition on one of the key routes our of BRU wouldn't have hurt their wallet.

If JAF is so eager to fly to the DRC, why don't they start negotiations with LAC to take over the two flights now rented by SN?

[airazurxtror]

Okay, you have the FR and JAF-lovers on this forum, but let's not forget that neither of those companies would do a great job from Belgium if they weren't only parts of much larger entities. Take JAF as example, where would they stand if they weren't part of the much larger TUI group?

Another good one !
Where would stand JAF if it weren't part of the TUI group ?
And where, pray, would SN stand if they were not part of the much larger Lufthansa group ?

Just for my information : from which larger entity is FR only part ?

[JOVAN]

Jetairfly: complaint with the European Commission
Jetairfly has introduced a complaint to the European Commission, following a decision of the Secretary of State for Mobility, Melchior Wathelet. The latter has decided to award two additional frequencies between Brussels and the Congolese capital of Kinshasa to Brussels Airlines.

Typical JAF...

Maybe we can suggesy some other destinations to JAF:

Johannesburg, DarEs Salaam, St Maarten, Curacao,Zanzibar, Sao Paolo,Miami, ....

Why steal the toy of SN; go for some real exciting destinations. There is so much to do in this world...