Air France AF447 crash into the Atlantic: Airbus A330 aircraft parts found

[Propwash]

Faulty sensors 'instrumental' in Air France crash

New evidence has emerged that shows faulty equipment may have caused the Air France crash off the Brazilian coast this year.

Full article (ABC News)

[teddybAIR]

Propwash,

No new evidence at all. This article mainly wraps up what we already know from previous investigations. The new element is an opinion of the vice-president of the flight test division at Airbus, Fernando Alonso, who literaly says: "I believe the ice could not be detected." when talking about the weather radar. However, this is not based on any CVR or FDR recordings and thus merely another speculation in what is probably going to prove to be one of the most complicated crash investigations in aviation history.

[DC3 Fan]

Fascinating informed speculation about the crash of AF447.

http://tinyurl.com/ybzf4vt

[sn26567]

Fascinating informed speculation about the crash of AF447.

http://tinyurl.com/ybzf4vt

And strange discoveries in that story:

It's only by means of a trick that the captain can even reach Paris without going under the legally required minimum reserves of kerosene that must still be in the plane's tanks upon arrival in the French capital. A loophole allows him to enter Bordeaux -- which lies several hundred kilometers closer than Paris -- as the fictitious destination for his fuel calculations.

Is that true? Does it happen at other airlines? Including SN?

In contrast to many other airlines, it is standard practice at Air France for the less experienced of the two copilots to take the captain's seat when the latter is not there. The experienced copilot remains in his seat on the right-hand side of the cockpit. Under normal circumstances, that is not a problem, but in emergencies it can increase the likelihood of a crash.

As a consequence, it was probably the plane's third pilot, Pierre-Cédric Bonin, a dashing amateur yachtsman, who steered the aircraft to its doom.

Tow copilots, and the least experience in the captain's seat while the captain was resting! The plane was already half an hour in turbulences: the captain should have been there!

[joyraider]

Reports are coming in that the "black box area" has been narrowed down to 5km!

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64518O20100506

Let's hope they find them, finally!

[regi]

yep, also on the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8664127.stm

wait and see.

[sn26567]

AF 447 Rio-Paris-CDG press release

Air France has been informed by the French Air Accident Investigation Bureau, which is in charge of the inquiry and communication relative to the sea search, that the French Navy has reportedly identified a beacon signal on some of the initial recordings from the first sea search campaign.

This information must now be checked and validated by the teams at the French Air Accident Investigation Bureau in order to guide the new search campaign that has just started.

This information, if confirmed, is excellent news as it constitutes a key element in the search process in order to establish the truth.

Air France press release, Thursday 6 May 2010

[EBAW_flyer]

It's only by means of a trick that the captain can even reach Paris without going under the legally required minimum reserves of kerosene that must still be in the plane's tanks upon arrival in the French capital. A loophole allows him to enter Bordeaux -- which lies several hundred kilometers closer than Paris -- as the fictitious destination for his fuel calculations.

Is that true? Does it happen at other airlines? Including SN?

It is a perfect legal procedure. And it is not the way they explain it in the article.
They do take the fuel for the trip to Paris, but the normally mandatory "extra" fuel is reduced (this extra fuel can be up to 5% of the trip fuel) by making Bordeaux an "alternate" airport so they can take less of this "extra" fuel (contingency fuel).
If they used little of this extra fuel (wich you use f.e. in case of stronger headwinds, non-optimum altitudes, ...), and so have the legal fuel to fly to Paris (including the contingency fuel for Bordeaux-Paris) , they continue.
Otherwise they land at Bordeaux.


But this I find very strange;

In contrast to many other airlines, it is standard practice at Air France for the less experienced of the two copilots to take the captain's seat when the latter is not there. The experienced copilot remains in his seat on the right-hand side of the cockpit. Under normal circumstances, that is not a problem, but in emergencies it can increase the likelihood of a crash.

As a consequence, it was probably the plane's third pilot, Pierre-Cédric Bonin, a dashing amateur yachtsman, who steered the aircraft to its doom.

In some serious electrical failures only the captain's instruments keep on working, this would mean the least experienced pilot (is this the same as the co-co at KLM?) would only have the flight instruments.
Or is the A330/340 electrical system different then A320?

[NimbusFlyer]

Or is the A330/340 electrical system different then A320?

Yes it is totally different: if you are used to an Emergency Elec in the A320 (I find this one of the most difficult failures, a real pain in the b*tt), you will find it quit easy in the A330. The A330 is a modern version of the A320 with a lot more redundancy.

[sn26567]

Aircraft search suspended

FRENCH AUTHORITIES have suspended looking for the black box flight recorders from an Air France Airbus A330 which mysteriously crashed in mid-Atlantic in June last year. It had always been thought that once the initial period was over the chances of finding the units were remote, designed as they are only to emit homing signals for around 30 days.

The national air investigation body, the Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA), said it would not issue a progress report for the time being, indicating that there was a difference of opinion with the French navy who do not have the lead role in the search. Speculation about the cause of the crash has focused on possible icing of the aircraft's speed sensors, which appeared to give inconsistent readings seconds before the plane vanished.

Source: AERBT and www.bea.aero

[cnc]

i wonder if the earth magnetic field could have something todo with the crash.
its a lot weaker in that area so when bombarded by a solar flare aircrafts are very vurnable in terms of navigation systems

[gumblebee]

Searchers found some aircraft parts from the AF447 airbus that crashed on june 1, 2009 on its way from Rio to Paris. Searchers have renewed hope to find the black boxes.

link (in French)

[Wohowbagger]

also on HLN

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/960/Buitenland ... vist.dhtml

and on avherald

http://avherald.com/h?article=41a81ef1/0053&opt=0

[andorra-airport]

They found bodies and a large part last Sunday. No flight recorders yet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ap ... rch-bodies

[sn26567]

AF 447 located: statement by Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, CEO AIR FRANCE - KLM
Sunday 3 April 2011

‘Air France has been informed by the BEA, the French Air Accident Investigation Bureau, that the Airbus A330 that crash-landed into the sea en route between Rio and Paris-Charles de Gaulle on 1 June 2009 has been located.

This discovery, coming only days after the Air France and Airbus funded fourth sea search was launched, is good news indeed since it gives hope that information on the causes of the accident, so far unresolved, will be forthcoming. Answers will perhaps therefore be found to the questions that, since 1 June 2009, families of the victims, our airline and the aviation community worldwide have asked as to how this tragic accident occurred.

Speaking on behalf of the airline, I would like to thank not only the French authorities who employed hitherto unheard of means to pursue searches but also the crew of the Alucia and all the teams who are going to take part in, as we all hope, the recovery of the flight recorders’.

Statement by Tom Enders, Airbus President and CEO, on AF447 debris discovery
4 April 2011

"Airbus welcomes the news of the discovery of the AF447 wreckage.

This is a relief for all those affected by this tragic event, in first place the relatives and friends of the victims.

We do hope that this discovery will lead to the retrieval and the reading of the two recorders because these data are essential for the understanding of this accident.

This discovery is very encouraging and rewards the tremendous efforts of all those who never gave up. It underlines how important air safety is to all actors of the air transport community."

[earthman]

So, um, now they barely started and already found more than all those months of searching turned up two years ago? What is different this time?

Did someone plant a plane wreck to conceal the fact that the plane in fact crash-landed on The Island?

[fretn]

strange that the remains can still be identified. The ocean is a playground of recycling bacteria...

[RoMax]

So, um, now they barely started and already found more than all those months of searching turned up two years ago? What is different this time?

Did someone plant a plane wreck to conceal the fact that the plane in fact crash-landed on The Island?

I assume they don't search in the exactly same areas as the previous times they searched. So each time they search in a new area they have more chance to find it because it must be somewhere.

[regi]

strange that the remains can still be identified. The ocean is a playground of recycling bacteria...

At some very deep places the ocean bottom is practically dead.

[Bralo20]

strange that the remains can still be identified. The ocean is a playground of recycling bacteria...

Actually the oceanfloor is one of the best places to preserve decomposing bodies... While bodies decompose faster in some specific circumstances while being in the water, this isn't the case for human remains in deep seas. At the depths where the wreckage is found there is nearly no live... Not only is there few actual life like fish, crabs, etc... but there is also barely life due bacteria. Besides that salt water is quite good to preserve bodies and so are the temperatures at the oceanfloor. Some soft tissue will be destroyed due the pressure but the human remains itself will be quite good preserved.

And they'll use DNA and dental information too. The only thing that won't be usable are fingerprints...

If the plane would have crashed in warm, sweet shallow water it would be totally different...