Fire crew strike halts all flights at BRU - strike ended

[SN30952]

So if you can qualify an unannounced strike like this one, that causes that many problems, as a severe fault, Brussels airport isn't responsible for the damage!

Euh, than nobody is responsible?
In Belgium, unions have no 'jurische persoon'. Management have...
So the government has to declare this Friday as a 'disaster on Zaventem'?

And why is it that the firemen were the cause of 'that many problems', and why is it not (again) the management?
What I've heard is that the management did not longer wanted to discuss the problems with their staff. That seems to me a severe fault, that put the airport operations in jeopardy.

Of course, the management will deny it, because beside losing money, the would lose their job.
But again, the shareholders will ask, who caused the the money loss.

[CSB]

Then the employees who were on strike could be held responsible, but my labour law is a bit to far away to know how good their protection by the unions is.

Off course the union can never be held responsible...a part of our legal system that i don't like. On your first day in law school, you are allways thougt that to be able to be a 'rechtssubject', you must have duties and rights. And that it is impossible to have only rights and no duties. But as said you can never sue unions, because they have no legal personality.

But back on topic, i was only trying to show that, as in most legal cases, there isn't an easy solution. I wanted to give that example, because that is, i think, a very good legal argument for Brussels airports defence.

I don't exactly know what happened within the company. All the things we know, is by hear-say. I'm not saying management didn't make mistakes, maybe they did. But i do believe that an unannounced strike isn't the right thing to do. I have a lot of respect for the wishes of the people who went on strike, but not for the method they used. If you compare with the latest strikes of the NMBS-personnel, they always announced it well in advance. That way you can put pressure on your management, but the thousands of people who can become the victims of the situation, can prepare themselves and make alternate plans.

An unnanounced strike like we had yesterday will only cause you to have an even worse relation with the management and also make the public opinion about you very negative.

just my 2 cents

[LX-LGX]

while we are at the legal side of it: the employer is not responsible for the damage its employer causes in case of fraud, severe fault or repeated light faults (Bedrog, zware fout en gewoonlijk voorkomende lichte fout). (art 18 arbeidsovereenkomstenwet)

CSB, sorry to disagree. Article 18 from the Belgian Law on Labour Contracts (Wet betreffende de Arbeidsovereenkomsten) is limiting the damage an employee has towards his employer. Brussels Airlines has not signed a contract with an employee (each individual fireman): Brussels Airlines had an agreement with the employer, a company = Brussels Airport nv/SA. The employer is always legally responsable, specially in cases of fraud / severe fault / repeated light fault. Most employers have an insurance (Burgerlijke Aansprakelijkheid) to cover sunch fantasies; specially in the bank industry, the damage can be quite high (remember a month ago: ABN AMRO Bank, Antwerp, Diamond Branch: 22 mio euro stolen from clients because of own security errors).

For the damage this strike has caused, Brussels Airlines can apply Burgerlijk Wetboek / Code Civil Art. 1383: "if you have damaged someone, you have to pay for it".

So if you can qualify an unannounced strike like this one, that causes that many problems, as a severe fault, Brussels airport isn't responsible for the damage!

I also disagree. If the strike was unannounced doesn't matter: what counts, is if the strike was evitable. Obviously, it was: if the President of the Board would have offered the salary increase on Thursday evening, there would not have been a strike.

The only truth that the honorouble President of the Board of Brussels Airport (our honourable ex-Minister Van den Bossche) has said, is that a wildcat strike (wilde staking) can be seen as force majeure / overmacht / Hand of God. But that argument only lasts for a limited period (not a whole day) and the strike has to start because of a particular incident (f.e. a fireman, seriuously injured because of poor equipment - or a passenger who has knocked down an unarmed security member, forced by management to operate alone).

What happened Friday, was a predicted strike - but exercised by surprise (one must admit that unions are good in such things). The unions and firemen wanted to hurt as many tourists and business men/women as possible, and they did.

Discussing about the strike from a legal point of view indeed doesn't change my opinion: it's a scandal that those you have taken 26.000 tourists as hostage, have recieved a reward for it.

[airazurxtror]

The firemen strike for just 8 hours and they get what they want.
I guess the message has been understood by the other workers at BRU.
This strike was probably not the last one.

[CSB]

CSB, sorry to disagree. Article 18 from the Belgian Law on Labour Contracts (Wet betreffende de Arbeidsovereenkomsten) is limiting the damage an employee has towards his employer.

Maybe your right...I'm not trying to be the authority here, I tought they teached us that an employer is responsible for the damage caused by his employee, based on 1384 Burgerlijk Wetboek, but that the employee himself could be held responsible in the 3 cases you find in art 18 arbeidsovereenkomstenwet. Aside from that there is the question if this is extracontractual damage or contractual damage...

But i think this may be a bit off topic. I only think that you can find legal arguments against every party in this situation. So it will be interesting to see who (or whose insurance) will pay for the damages, and if this ever gets to a court, I think it will be an interesting ruling.

But I definitly agree with you that what happened, is a scandal. I think there were other ways to put pressure on the management, without taking thousands of tourists as a hostage and giving Belgium and Belgian aviation such a bad image.

[teddybAIR]

Reality is that the consequences of the strike were not proportional to the demands of the personel. Certainly not if 1 talk with Mr Van den Bossche about remuneration and fringe benefits can solve the whole discussion. I am afraid that I have the impression that the strike was merely a materialistic attempt for better remuneration. I did not hear 1 appology nor promise from management that projects will be set up to improve the company culture.

So typical for our small country

[regi]

Imagine: next July those strikers go to check inn at BRU and are responded: "you cannot board because you are a danger for our operations, because you went on strike despite you have a safety job. Contact your union for complaints. Next"

[CSB]

Did someone read my posts on here?

some lawyer is trying to hold the strikers personally responsible for the damages they caused to the travellers

http://www2.vrtnieuws.net/cm/vrtnieuws. ... m_Zaventem

[Flybe]

Off topic, although related.

Some time ago, the Belgian fire departments held a demonstration in Brussels to obtain a better work environment.

They were aggressive, cars were damaged, policemen were attacked and injured, etc.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/Article/Detail ... 8923070228

This all because...:

Hun voornaamste eis is een echt statuut. In het hervormingsplan is er alleen maar sprake van een ,,vooral theoretisch'' kader, zei Guy Crijns van de christelijke vakbond in naam van het gemeenschappelijk vakbondsfront.

because they wanted a real statute, while now it is a "mostly theoretic framework"... Unions were satisfied about the demonstration...

Is that worth it? Damaging property of other people (damage by vandalisme is not reimbursed by most normal insurances).

Now the fire department at Brussels Airport together with some security people go on a wild strike, affecting more than 20.000 people. Businesses lose money (Meetings and trips need to be rescheduled, etc.), the average leisure traveler traveling on that day is affected (you work a whole year for that holiday, and then that happens, etc.)

And the unions? They can't be prosecuted, not for the damage of the demonstration, not for the damage of the wild strike. They are effectively above the law in Belgium. This has to change!

And sorry to say, but I hope that the wild strikers will be trialed and convicted. Not so that they need to pay much (although the real costs of the strike was much higher even!), but to make an example. Somebody needs to be held responsible. And the responsibility of a wild strike lies indeed with those that started it!

I need to trust firemen to save my live, while they damage property, hurt other people, and give me other costs because they go on wild strikes... It's like trusting a british hooligan... much luck.

Needless to say that I'm very disappointed in Belgian society and fire departments...

BTW: if judged appropriate, feel free to delete my post, but I'm happy I could vent once...


Pieter

[ElcoB]

....
....This has to change! ...
...
Pieter

Welcome in the real world, Pieter...

Alitalia to be hit by flight attendant strike next Thursday

Grève spontanée sur les sites Airbus 27/04/07

unofficial industrial action by SAS Denmark cabin crew.

[airazurxtror]

As aleady mentioned above, a group of passengers are sueing the 46 firemen and security personnel who went on strike april 13th.
They claim the action was unlawful (a wild-cat strike is not legal in Belgium) and disproportionate : 200 cancelled flights to get a few maaltijd-cheques-repas.
Their lawyer, Peter Cafmeyer, asks for 100.000 euros, i.e some 2.000 euros to be paid by each striker.
Why not ? That would teach them (and others) a lesson.

[Flybe]

Welcome in the real world, Pieter...

Through, the real world at least in the western countries. People have been blinded so much by their welfare that they don't realise that they can loose it again very quickly. They are on the right track though, the right track to loose it all. And I won't regret it, he who burns his a** needs to sit on the burnmarks. I'll take my conclusions before it is too late, too many opportunities in the world to just sit here and see our small(-minded) country fade away into unexistence.

It will take another decade or 2, and some years of sharp loss of welfare before some people will learn. Politicians as well as unions will be the last to learn as usual.

Sorry for being fftopic:

Rant over.

[Philippepompier]

Oh please to all off you who don't know what you are talking about shut up.
We are being pictured as animals who held the airport hostige, as a matter of fact all those firemen are being held hostige for more than 3 years .We know what is going wrong and we also have our rights. If you want to blame someone blame the f****** management for their incompetence. This conflict in not based on "maaltijdcheques" but there are a lot of different issues going wrong. We also want the best for brussels airport but this will not happen for free. There are al least 15 points under discussion but this is not mentioned in the press only maaltijdscheques. So people of the press is you want ,I got some gros you all could write about.

[LX-LGX]

... as a matter of fact all those firemen are being held hostage for more than 3 years .

I've got good news for you: I've been at the airport tonight, and the doors are wide open: you're free to go!

This conflict in not based on "maaltijdcheques" but there are a lot of different issues going wrong.

Nice try, but it's too late: the damage has been done because your union friends told on TV that it WAS about Maaltijdcheques / Cheques Repas. They only came with these "other issues" days after they've seen that your strike was regarded as disgusted by the public. Thet fact not a single other reason was explained, like you also refuse to do now, shows that the other issues are no reason to go on strike.

We also want the best for brussels airport but this will not happen for free.

The upmost important thing for an airport is to be open and running: 24 hours a day, 365 days long. There is no discussion possible about this. It's a bad sign for Brussels Airport's future if you really think that it's in their own interest that 26.000 tourists are held as hostage. Your remark "we want the best for Brussels Airport" is cynism uneseen here.

[airazurxtror]

Main title in first page of "Le Soir":
Raid surprise sur grève sauvage
and two full pages (2 and 3) plus comments on page 22.
The 100.000 euros demanded from the 46 firemen is only the compensation claimed by the first 200 passengers who have already joined Peter Cafmeyer.
There are some 25.800 other passengers who were inconvenienced by that strike. They can join the action at :
http://www.advocava.be/zaventem.html

Brussels Airlines is not satisfied with the compensation presented by BIAC.
Four fridays in May without paying the T/O and landing taxes is worth 150.000 euros, whereas the loss of the strike was more than one million euros... not counting the moral damage on the customers.

[teach]

We are being pictured as animals who held the airport hostige,

Well, what else do you call an UNANNOUNCED strike affecting 26.000 (read that again: TWENTY-SIX THOUSAND!!!!) people who had NO WAY of preparing for it, and no way to escape? I call that holding the airport hostage.

as a matter of fact all those firemen are being held hostige for more than 3 years

And, of course, in all those three years of you being 'held hostage' the ONLY way you could think to react was to go on a WILDCAT strike? It NEVER occured to you to go about this the proper way, i.e. to ANNOUNCE your intention to strike, so that you could at least give people a chance to make other arrangements?

We also want the best for brussels airport

Then you wouldn't have gone on a wildcat strike.

Actually, come to think of it, what you've done with that post is you've strengthened the case for those suing you, as you have clearly indicated that this was NOT a case of a problem that suddenly emerged and could only be dealt with this way. You've clearly indicated the problem has been around for three years, so there is absolutely NO reason why you couldn't have announced the action.

I for one hope they win this case, if just to set an example and make it clear that the practice of taking innocent and completely unprepared citizens hostage needs to end. I normally respect a decision for a strike, as long as it is done in a correct way, i.e. announced in a timely manner. Actions like this one should not be respected, since you didn't bother respecting the innocent people that day either, and I hope you'll pay for it.

[Cartman]

I've got good news for you: I've been at the airport tonight, and the doors are wide open: you're free to go!

You know very well things don't work like that.

Nice try, but it's too late: the damage has been done because your union friends told on TV that it WAS about Maaltijdcheques / Cheques Repas. They only came with these "other issues" days after they've seen that your strike was regarded as disgusted by the public. Thet fact not a single other reason was explained, like you also refuse to do now, shows that the other issues are no reason to go on strike.

Doesn't the word TV rings a bell? They take a ten minute interview and take one or two quotes that sound catchy. I'm sure that the union representative told a lot about the other problems, but it was probably too complicated for the audience to understand...

The upmost important thing for an airport is to be open and running: 24 hours a day, 365 days long. There is no discussion possible about this. It's a bad sign for Brussels Airport's future if you really think that it's in their own interest that 26.000 tourists are held as hostage. Your remark "we want the best for Brussels Airport" is cynism uneseen here.

I think the best intrest for Brussels Airport and its passengers and airlines is safety. If this safety is threatened by bad management, then someone has to ring the bell...

I do agree that a wildcat strike wasn't a good idea, and I hope it doesn't happen again. But the claim against the strikers looks a bit like a laywer looking for cheap publicity and money.

[dna]

Doesn't the word TV rings a bell? They take a ten minute interview and take one or two quotes that sound catchy. I'm sure that the union representative told a lot about the other problems, but it was probably too complicated for the audience to understand...

I find this remark extremely offensive. It may come as a surprise to you, but journalists do try to get the message across in an objective manner. It may have escaped your attention, but there were newspaper journalists present as well, who did not have to restrict themselves to a single soundbite. I didn't read anything that differed from what I heard or saw on radio and TV. If journalists worked the way you imagine they do, they'd be in court all the time. But of course, blaming the messenger is the easy way out.

[LX-LGX]

I've checked another source, in which another union leader confirmed it was only about a salary increase through Maaltijdcheques / Cheques Repas. But off course, the union man didn't knew at that moment that the public would regard the strike as disgusted, and he didn't knew at that moment that the strike would lead to a court case. Otherwise, he would have said something like some here do: "weell, euh, it's three years now that the employees are mistreated and beaten by the bastards from Management..."

No Cartman, you're too late to say that it was not about Maaltijdcheques.

- - -

Belga, Friday 13 April 2007:

(sorry, Dutch only):

Op Brussels Airport is vrijdag om 6 uur een spontane staking uitgebroken bij de brandweer en het veiligheidspersoneel. Voorlopig heeft de actie weinig impact op de vluchten. Bij de veiligheidscontrole kunnen er wel langere wachttijden ontstaan. De staking vloeit voort uit een al langer sluimerende algemene onvrede over het management, zegt Jan François van ACV-Transcom. Meer concreet heeft dat te maken met onder meer het toekennen van premies en maaltijdcheques. Door de stakingsactie is de veiligheid niet gegarandeerd. "Meestal beslissen de maatschappijen dan de meeste vluchten af te leiden", aldus François. Jan Van der Cruysse van Brussels Airport benadrukt dat de luchthaven niet gesloten is. "De actie heeft tot nu toe weinig tot geen impact op de vluchten", zegt hij. Van der Cruysse roept reizigers op om gewoon naar de luchthaven in Zaventem te komen. (kva)

[airazurxtror]

Following the April 13th strike, Brussels Airlines has received 900 complaints from passengers. Most of them have already had their ticket refunded. Everything should be settled at the end of july, said Thierry van Eyll, spokesman for Brussels Airlines. The estimated total losses for the company amount to "a few" millions euros. They hope Brussels Airport Company will make a gesture...
( La Libre Belgique", wednesday, quoted in "Le Soir" of thursday).

In september next, some 800 passengers victim of that strike, federated by the limburgse lawyer Peter Cafmeyer, will lodge a joint complaint against the 46 strikers.
The unions non having a juridical personality, we must lodge a complaint against each striker, says Cafmeyer. It took a lot of time to collect all the necessary documents, the biggest problem has been to find the name and address of each striker.
(in "Le Soir", yesterday, page 17)