Aviation and the Ebola epidemic in West-Africa

[sn-remember]

I like this sentence, so give me the pleasure to repeat it again ?
They say :
"Volgens de studie, die vandaag inThe Lancet verschijnt, stappen maandelijks gemiddeld nog geen drie ebolapatiënten op commerciële vluchten die de getroffen West-Afrikaanse landen met de rest van de wereld verbinden."
"Following the study published today in The Lancet, no more than 3 EVD patients/month in average would board a commercial aircraft outbound from West African countries."
All in all, good news !

[sn-remember]

I think that there is some consensus on the broad lines

your statement reminds me to "and I am unanimous in that" from Mrs Slocombe (Are you Being Served?).

Hahaha

Just one example (medical fact): when a person has no fever on departure and no fever on arrival, it is impossible that this person has contanimated someone else in between. So why do you want Brussels Airlines to clean meal plates or decontaminate toilets then?!

Reference pls ?

[sean1982]

Who is talking about 2 flights a month? Im talking about an extensive coordinated rescue mission with daily (military or chartered) properly controlled flights into and out of the region to provide medical staff and supplies. This should not be paid for by any volunteer organisation but by all Western governments. Again, why does Joe public need a flight there when he has no business there and cannot be controlled properly if he/she takes proper measures against getting infected.

Still no valid argument for commercial ops!

[airazurxtror]

The Obama administration announced Tuesday that all U.S.-bound travelers from three Ebola-stricken African countries will be required to fly into one of five airports that are conducting additional screening.
The Department of Homeland Security said the new restrictions will go into effect starting Wednesday.
The change means all travelers from those three countries will have to arrive at one of the five designated airports: New York's JFK, Newark, Dulles, Atlanta and Chicago.
DHS and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention already have implemented "enhanced screening measures" at those five airports.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10 ... countries/

[b-west]

Just one example (medical fact): when a person has no fever on departure and no fever on arrival, it is impossible that this person has contanimated someone else in between. So why do you want Brussels Airlines to clean meal plates or decontaminate toilets then?!

Reference pls ?

I think it has been stated over and over that someone who doesn't show symptoms of the disease is not contagious. So if you don't show symptoms getting on and still none after getting off the plane, there's no risk you might have contaminated a fellow passenger or the plane itself.

[OO-ITR]

The change means all travelers from those three countries will have to arrive at one of the five designated airports: New York's JFK, Newark, Dulles, Atlanta and Chicago.

And all of these airports are connected to BRU...

[sn-remember]

Just one example (medical fact): when a person has no fever on departure and no fever on arrival, it is impossible that this person has contanimated someone else in between. So why do you want Brussels Airlines to clean meal plates or decontaminate toilets then?!

Reference pls ?

I think it has been stated over and over that someone who doesn't show symptoms of the disease is not contagious. So if you don't show symptoms getting on and still none after getting off the plane, there's no risk you might have contaminated a fellow passenger or the plane itself.

@Passenger
And you are right , but ....
Quoting Dr Beutler :
"Although it has frequently been stated that patients are not contagious before they are sick, I wonder how absolute this is. Clearly they are infected with the virus before they are sick. They are not shedding virus because they are not vomiting or having diarrhea, but can a patient spread it sexually before they are symptomatic? Or through a nosebleed? "
And also from him :
"Medicine can be a very humbling profession"
What's the fuss with using some bleach to clean the toilets ?
I am sure it's already done so ..
As for the meals items, I was just mentioning to be sort of exhaustive .. in fact I don't know the recycle chain, anyways maybe not relevant. Reminding you I started the decontamination point with the usual disclaimer 'I am not an expert.."
Just sharing some thoughts here ok ?
I just want to see the directives of the ministry of health concerning the cleaning/decontamination procedures on this subject.

[convair]

I just want to see the directives of the ministry of health concerning the cleaning/decontamination procedures in this context.

What for? You said you're not an expert!

[sn-remember]

@convair
Oh please ...

[convair]

Sorry if I hurt you. But it seems today everyone wants to be in charge of everything!

[sn-remember]

@convair
You are welcome
One must admit that one can get "heated" in the heart of a discussion ..
It's true that SN operation in particular and the principle of commercial air link with the EB-3 countries in general are currently under the public's close scrutiny. More so since the Duncan case.
It's clear that the fact that they still operate without official guidelines or govt directives makes the thing harder to them (SN)
I can give the impression at times that I am against their venture in EB-3 territory but I am not that radical at this point in time ..
Besides transfering the problem from civil to relief flights would not solve the core of the problem which is contagion control. Both are problematic, the difference being that relief flights are in theory more professionally controlled. So the issue civil/relief flights is not trivial at all.
I am currently pleading for an international frame conform to the hazardous reality.
Accurate information is often not a white or black thing.
We have to live with approximation, know how to behave for the best of the community and ourselves and tame fears using our own judgement.
On the whole this discussion is positive bcs we learn and accept that zero risk situations do not exist.

However it's our duty to determine and apply the best possible rules.

[convair]

I'm with you...but there are people in charge. If everyone wants to dictate the rules, the result is chaos!

[FlightMate]

The early symptoms (fever) can easily be concealed with paracetamol.
It doesn't make people less contagious.

When you read that Duncan lied about having been in contact with ebola-affected persons, when doctors pretty well know they were in charge of sick people but travel nonetheless, you cannot expect others not to do anything to get back to first world countries when they are sick, just to have access to better treatment.

[Passenger]

The early symptoms (fever) can easily be concealed with paracetamol. It doesn't make people less contagious.

One needs at least one full box of paracetamol 1mg to lower fever caused by ebola with 0,5°C.

[sean1982]

Says who? What's your source?

[Passenger]

The early symptoms (fever) can easily be concealed with paracetamol.

Says who? What's your source?

[FlightMate]

Interview from a doctor on US news. Will try to find the info again.

He basically said that ibuprofen or other substances can lower the fever enough to allow people to go through security scans at airports.

[airazurxtror]

Says for instance (after many others) le Dr Yves Van Laethem, spécialiste des maladies infectieuses à l'hôpital Saint Pierre de Bruxelles :

http://www.levif.be/actualite/sante/ebo ... 17497.html

Une personne peut très bien avoir 37,5 degrés de fièvre parce qu'elle vient de prendre du paracétamol et présenter d'autres symptômes plus inquiétants qui passeraient inaperçus.
----
A person may very well have 37.5° because he just took paracetamol and have other more severe symptoms that would go unnoticed

[Passenger]

Says for instance (after many others) le Dr Yves Van Laethem, spécialiste des maladies infectieuses à l'hôpital Saint Pierre de Bruxelles :
http://www.levif.be/actualite/sante/ebo ... 17497.html
Une personne peut très bien avoir 37,5 degrés de fièvre parce qu'elle vient de prendre du paracétamol et présenter d'autres symptômes plus inquiétants qui passeraient inaperçus.
----
A person may very well have 37.5° because he just took paracetamol and have other more severe symptoms that would go unnoticed

The director of Médecins Sans Frontières Belgium AZG/MSF was interviewed about that too, just after she returned from Monrovia. She said that a passenger who has ebola will not board an aircraft because he/she will be too weakened in general by the other aspects from ebola (it's what dr. Van Laethem probably means with "autres symptômes plus inquiétants quie passeraient inaperçus") . The MSF doctor has seen ebola victims in her Monrovia field hospitals.

Dr Van Laethem also states that temperature checks are done as "mesures d'apaisement, afin d'atténuer la psychose qui règne autour de l'épidémie". Temperature is checked because people then think it's safe.

[sean1982]

The early symptoms (fever) can easily be concealed with paracetamol.

Says who? What's your source?

Why would ibuprofen or paracetamol be any less effective in dealing with early ebola fever than any other?