ANA from NRT to BRU as from winter season 2015

[Airbus A330]

Hello!

I also think it will probably be a daily flight.

I saw the schedule of the current NRT - CDG - NRT service, how can the NRT - CDG flight arrive at CDG after the departure of the CDG - NRT flight?

Could it be a 787 flying the NRT - CDG route later operates the CDG - HND flight & the 787 flying HND - CDG later operates the CDG - NRT flight?

Anyway, as a great fan of ANA, I'm really excited they finally launch the long waited Tokyo - Brussels route!

[RoMax]

I saw the schedule of the current NRT - CDG - NRT service, how can the NRT - CDG flight arrive at CDG after the departure of the CDG - NRT flight?

Could it be a 787 flying the NRT - CDG route later operates the CDG - HND flight & the 787 flying HND - CDG later operates the CDG - NRT flight?

See my previous post (last post on previous page) in response to 'SN1234', or to make it easier

Currently ANA operates like this: HND-CDG-NRT and NRT-CDG-HND, so they can't just swap the CDG-NRT to BRU without changing the schedule, also the HND-CDG-HND schedule might change, unless they keep the aircraft on the ground at CDG from 16:00 (arrival from HND in current schedule) until 21:10 (departure to HND in current schedule).

[convair]

It will definitely become daily. Thinking about the schedule. Isn't it possible they just take the same schedule as for CDG?

NRT1355 1925CDG
CDG1730 1210NRT

Then they just move their destination with 300km.

Very strange schedule: ANA plane spending almost a full day in CDG! Or is there a further leg somewhere like AMS or CPH...?

[RoMax]

Very strange schedule: ANA plane spending almost a full day in CDG! Or is there a further leg somewhere like AMS or CPH...?

Ok after my previous attempt maybe better to explain it by giving the full (current) schedule of their operation

HND 1040 - CDG 1600
CDG 1745 - NRT 1225 (+1)

NRT 1355 - CDG 1925
CDG 2110 - HND 1600 (+1)

So again, NH operates HND-CDG-NRT and NRT-CDG-HND in the current schedule, both daily 787, both aircraft on the ground at CDG for just 1:45. As they'll only keep HND as from this winter, either they need to change the schedule or they'll have their aircraft on the ground from 16:00 until 21:10

[convair]

Sorry RoMax!
I hadn't seen your post before I wrote mine! Although I should have thought of that!!! Such a solution is obvious when you have 2 flights to the same destination and you need more than 2 aircraft anyway to service them both. The "make-up" is done in HND.

ANA will have to modify their CDG schedule although they could theoretically still do it if they position their planes back and forth between BRU and CDG.

[RoMax]

Sorry RoMax!
I hadn't seen your post before I wrote mine!

No problem, just funny that you seemed to be second one to have missed my comment that they operate it as a mixed operation, which was a good solution to have good timings for both flights and very limited time on the ground.

I assume they'll just adjust their CDG-HND schedule iso starting with positioning flights to/from BRU :p

[Airbus A330]

No problem, just funny that you seemed to be second one to have missed my comment that they operate it as a mixed operation, which was a good solution to have good timings for both flights and very limited time on the ground.

Indeed, I also missed your previous post.

Thanks a lot for the ANA flight schedule at CDG, RoMax!

[Flanker2]

It will cost you roughly 800€ return and about 16-18 hours travel time between Tokyo and Africa with Qatar, Etihad , Mrats or Turkish.
Why would anybody consider travel through Brussels, making your journey 30hrs long and probably pay 500€ more?

The problem that these ME4 airlines have is that despite how often they are named, they don't have huge fleets of aircraft. They can carry quite a lot of RPK traffic because they use larger aircraft over longer distances with the connecting detours, but the relatively small fleets of aircraft also means that they can't be everywhere at the same time. The ME3's barely have a network in West Africa, covering only the big cities.
SN has much more coverage, flying into the smaller countries.

I tried running some simulations TYO-West Africa:
-TYO-DKR best option NRT-IST-DKR 31 hours 20 min. DKR-IST-NRT 25 hours 45 min. with TK : fares around 1500 EUR in Y, 4500 EUR in J
-TYO-ABJ best option NRT-ADD-ABJ 27 hours 35 min. ABJ-ADD-NRT 25 hours with ET: fares around 1600 EUR in Y
-TYO-LFW best option NRT-ADD-LFW 25 hours 15 min. LFW-ADD-NRT 22 hours 15 min. with ET: fares around 3000 EUR in Y, 6500 EUR in J
-TYO-OUA best option NRT-ADD-OUA 26 hours 45 min. OUA-ADD-NRT 24 hours 30 min. with ET: fares around 1800 EUR in Y, 4000 EUR in J
-TYO-DLA best option NRT-ADD-DLA 22 hours 45 min. DLA-ADD-NRT 23 hours with ET: fares around 1600 EUR in Y, 3500 EUR in J

At first glance
-no EK, no EY, no QR.
-fares through the roof
-long trip times, similar to what can be achieved with a BRU NH/SN transit
-ET currently offers the best options, but I doubt Japanese corporates are jumping to the idea of flying an African airline all the way, connecting in Africa. There's no doubt that they would prefer to absorb a longer lay-over in BRU, if they can fly more than half the trip on a Japanese carrier and on a decent European carrier thereafter, while enjoying a good lounge service and shopping for chocolate during their lay-over.

It's true that Africa isn't swarming with Japanese. Japanese corporates going there stay relatively short times and barely leave their hotels, except for NGO workers. Also, most Africans and Europeans who haven't spent a lot of time in Japan, can't tell a Japanese from a Chinese.
Even with this NH flight, I doubt that you'll see more than 20 pax per flight connecting on to Africa. It's a niche, but this niche exists. Those max. 20 pax will be mostly J pax paying top money.
That and the fact that the schedule wouldn't inconvenience the mainstream BRU-TYO O&D pax makes sense enough to make sure the connection is in place and made as convenient as possible.

The ME4's and ET are having a lot of trouble convincing Japanese pax to fly with them.
Not only to Africa, but even to Europe. Japanese will go for a Japanese airline or an airline of a Western country unless they have no other options, are low income students or part of a low cost tour package.

IMO NH will come with a low density premium 169 Pax B788 in the beginning, upgrading to B789 at a later stage. The B788 and B789 have the same premium cabin, just more Y cabin and freight space on the B789, the upgrade will IMO come only once they start building up the Y and freight demand, which will be slower to build than the premium demand that is almost immediately available.
With time and once the cargo market on this route is built up, I think that a B777 is a possibility.
By the time the route is large enough for a B777, HND will also have more international slots available and a move to HND could be made possible, making it even easier to connect to Africa in BRU, to regional Japan and rest of Asia at HND.

[sn26567]

Indirectly related: after ANA decided to cancel its NRT-CDG route on 25 October, it will replace B787-8 operations on its Tokyo Haneda HND – Paris CDG service with B787-9 on the same date.

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Any idea about the BRU-NRT flight timetable release date?

[Airbus A330]

Any idea about the BRU-NRT flight timetable release date?

No idea but I guess it will be a matter of maximum 10-15 days (as it was the case with TG in 2011, it was officially announced around 27 June and reservations of the flights opened early or mid-July if I remember well).

[asianlao02]

Any idea about the BRU-NRT flight timetable release date?

no we have to wait.... i think the schedule will be similar like their others euro destinations from Narita

[brusselsairlinesfan]

Regarding the aircraft, it will surely be a 787-8 (just my 2 cents).

[Flanker2]

Precisely, by far many more Japan based travelers are interested in SN's Italian, French, destinations.. Spain, UK, GVA, and ZRH (if they prefer to fly NH to LX).. than they are in Africa.. Anyways, time will tell and we shall know the figures this time next year.. one thing for sure, we shall see some Japanese passengers on many SN European flights.. and others flying into BRU to connect to the flights to NRT.

I think most connections from Japan based pax will be to other European destinations.. Japan is not as exposed to Africa as China is. I do not think that the aim is to connect to SN's Triangular African flights.

I fully agree. I don't understand the focus on the small number of Africa flights to which the ANA flight could connect. ANA flies to six European cities only. I think their aim will be do code share with SN on connecting flights to/from a large number of European cities. An arrival in BRU around 6 p.M. and a departure to NRT at around 8 p.m. will offer much more "good" (short) connections to European cities.

I don't think that ANA is interested in those pax, as those are already covered through their FRA, MUC hubs and otherwise by competing/partner airlines and their own connecting networks at hubs across Europe. Competing for those will be chasing for the low yield pax just to fill your plane.
When you bring in a low density B788 on a 13 hour route, you hope to maximise on O&D and high yield connections. You can't afford to chase for low yield intra-EU connecting pax.

I don't say that they won't sell several connecting seats on SN's intra-EU network. They will and they will have to, especially in the beginning as the market takes time to catch up with the new direct route.
But the high yield connections in BRU are to destinations in Africa, which are a niche that only few competitors are covering and NH is not currently offering at all. Even if NH sell 10 daily J seats connecting on to and from SN's 5/6 daily departures to Africa, it helps them go from "good profits" to "great profits" on the NRT-BRU flight.

This is the Africa network that NH is currently offering out of NRT/HND on their Japanese website, all through codeshares:
Algeria, Egypt, Ethiopia, Morocco, Republic of Kenya, South Africa,Tunisia

Basically, with SN, NH gains all the West and Central African dots of SN's except Kenya and Ethiopia which was already covered.

So it would be foolish not to ensure that a connection is possible.
If NH see that there is traffic on the connecting route and the connection is long, I'm sure that they'll figure something out to make sure that their pax will not feel it as an inconvenience.

For SN the ramifications are huge... a few of those pax spread over their flights can make a difference.

Finally, we shall not assume that only Japanese pax will use such a connection. You see more and more African people in Japan, among them diplomats and business tycoons, but also migrant workers.
In fact, there's a Kenyan guy working at one of our associated branches, who told me he flies back twice a year to see his family. He also exports small household goods to Kenya as a side job.

FINNAIR might see some drop of its passengers and cargo traffic between BRU and Japan.

That's certain. AY's BRU-HEL route will also suffer from reduced traffic, as will JL on NRT-HEL and on NRT/HND-CDG. AF will also see some impact.
It's not much as the traffic is spread pretty thin over different airlines/hubs, but AY/JL will certainly loose the most IMO and it will be the highest yielding pax.

[travellover]

Welcome back on the BRU map, NRT ! A key destination linking Belgium and the third largest economy in the world, but also a millennium culture ! Well done ! An additional breath for the growing Star Alliance hub at BRU. For the first time ever, a japanese passenger (and cargo) airline connects BRU (and Belgium generally) with own metal. SABENA offered a codeshare with ANA until 2001, however. What kind of fret can mainly be transported on a 788 between BRU and NRT, NRT and BRU ?

[flightlover]

Pharma and chocolates would be a good guess. Low in weight and high in vallue.

[Flanker2]

Freight will definitely be a big part of the revenue for this flight.
I've always seen the flights from Japan being loaded with several pallets and containers and a lot of bulk.

The B788 has plenty of room for freight and I'm sure that these flights will be full of freight after time.
A lot of the cargo will be bulk mail and parcels.
For the rest it will be food, mechanical parts, pharma, high-end electronics and parts thereof from Japan.

From Belgium it will be mostly food and pharma.

[Bralo20]

From Belgium it will be mostly food and pharma.

Time to order some delicious real Kobe beef then...

[travellover]

Thank you

[chineseboy]

Can we already countdown for the release date?