Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[oldblueeyes]

Easy game. There are 11 more A320 with the chosen engines to be delivered until end 2028, so a fair portion may land in BRU.

[TimTam]

I thought the LH Group strategy for SN was to add gradually (= imho very slowly) additional.aircraft to SN's fleet. Now I read a plane is leaving. I cannot follow anymore. Sorry.

It's still the case. The fleet of SN is growing with 1 long haul per year and 2 or 3 narrow bodies per year.

But you have also planes who came at the end of their leasing. Or you can prolong it or not. But in the case of SN they decided to go for the bigger A320, so the smaller A319 is slowly leaving the fleet.

This is a very natural procedure.

Thank you !

[TimTam]

I don't know wich one first but 4 A330's are planned to be painted this winter amongs them: OO-SFB; OO-SFJ; OO-SFP painting are planned in Chatearoux
Concerning the A320's this will happend in East Midland, OO-SNN and other will be repainted.

There will be no more Eurowings livery next summer

The A330 OO-SFJ with the Eurowings livery is back at the moment.
It would arrive à 12:30 at BRU tomorrow.

you mentioned here that it would get a new livery this winter;
do you know when it will go to Châteauroux?

This is personal, but this livery makes me sick, even though it is rated Skytrax 4 since this summer.
Brussels Airlines is the last black sheep with a 3-star Skytrax rating within the LH group.

The Skytrax 3-star rating for SN is probably due to the "European" Business Class which is not really a Business class but rather a Premium + economy class. I say "Premium +" because the middle deat remains unoccupied. The rest is not a proper business class.

[oldblueeyes]

Could you show us any " real" business class on intra European routes from the major European carriers?

Pls do not mix it with companies flying with the same aircraft 6 hours legs aa well ( so Turkish and IRAs 321 LR won't qualify).

[TimTam]

Dear obe, you know what Business class on intra-European flights means, at least, I assume.
It has nothing to do with what you find in most other parts of the world where you usually have a 2x2 configuration in single-aisle aircraft.

I have not flown with every airline in Europe. So, I will stick to the ones I know.
You will, of course, correct me, if necessary, or add your wide expertise to my contribution.

The general rule for intra-European flights is a 3x3 configuration with a free middle seat.
Then come the extras.
Many airlines including within the LH Group (so, also SN), will offer you the same uncomfortable seats with no added leg room, just as in economy.
IB and TP, for instance, will offer one or two extra inches legroom in the front of the cabin, as well as more comfortable seats.

(Probably) all airlines (also LH, LX, OS) will have a dividing curtain between C and Y, which SN does not have.
The curtain between the C cabin and the galley is closed except at SN.
Lately, (SN flight), the purser and a cc were talking so loud that I got up and asked them politely to lower their voices as I could understand everything they were saying. I suggested that they close the curtain, but the purser said they had instructions to leave it open so that they could be more "bereikbaar" (I quote), approachable (?). I told them that all other airlines, including LH, would have that curtain closed. The purser said : oh, really ?). I went back to my seat. The curtain remained open (in order to invite Y pax to use the toilet at the front ?).

LH, IB, TP, A3 (and probably the others, too) will politely tell Y pax who ignore the dividing curtain between Y and C to use the toilets at the back. At SN, on the contrary, there is an "open invitation" and if you are out of luck you will have pax next to you, queueing to go to the front toilet.

Sorry, to switch now to catering.
On longer intra-European flights (at least two to three hours or a little more, most airlines I know (including LH) will offer an "aperitif" with some nuts before serving a warm meal and most of the time, a choice between two main courses, sometimes three (LH).
At SN, there is no choice, it is take it or leave it (or you should have pre-ordered a special meal).
Most airline will serve you wine from a bottle, not wine in a small plastic bottle like SN.

The airlines I know (including LH) will keep at least one cc (the purser) sometimes two cc in the galley to take care of the C pax.
At SN, once you got your tray with your meal and a drink, purser + cc crew disappear to do the inflight sales.
If you would like, be it only more water, you have to push the call button and hope someone will come.

That is what comes to my mind now. The sub C class at SN is incomprehensible to me, since their C fares are the same or to a large extent the same as those of LH, for instance. My ranking for SN's intra-European Business class is 2 stars. LH 4 stars. Why the difference, obe ?

[oldblueeyes]

My view on this is pretty straight forward:

Overall context:
- average sector length in Europe is much smaller than in Asia or the US (for comparable size narrowbodies) thus the cabin product is more oriented towards a short leg, regardless of of the companies
- price points in Europe as also below eg US - just compare eg Ryanair entry point fares with Southwest and you'll see that in the US the lowest promo fair is higher than the average revenue per passanger Ryanair makes in Europe including all ancilliaries; lower price result in lower service levels

SN:
- the legacy of SN is not one of a full service airline - regardless that many see a Sabena legacy, the reality is that SN emerged from Virgin Express
- the overall market environment in Belgium is pretty much LCC driven
- SN is starting now to make some steps towards being a network brand of the LH group (likely tier 2 in the medium future), but it was never considered as such before ( Eurowings branding calling)
- this would explain to me why some soft aspects of the product you mentioned are below the expectation of a full flag carrier

Now let's come to the famous Skytrax stars:
- the problem with them is that Skytrax is a company offering consulting service on one side and making ranking on another side without specifying transparently the criteria
- you would remember the discussion about Lufthansa 5 stars few years ago, with a fairly aged cabin product and German service
- as an educated guess, i would assume a better star allocation for clients where they can bill some invoices, and likely SN not offering them any business in the past

[Atlantis]

Just don't get too much excited about star rankings. The hight of your airline depends also how much money they pay them to have more stars..... just for your info

[TimTam]

Just don't get too much excited about star rankings. The hight of your airline depends also how much money they pay them to have more stars..... just for your info

I tend to agree with you.

[sn26567]

Just don't get too much excited about star rankings. The height of your airline also depends how much money they pay them to have more stars..... just for your info

That's why we rarely mention the Skytrax stars in our main articles.

[Lux_avi]

Just don't get too much excited about star rankings. The hight of your airline depends also how much money they pay them to have more stars..... just for your info

So would SN pay more money than Qatar, Etihad, Emirates & so on to get a better rating?

[longwings]

Just don't get too much excited about star rankings. The hight of your airline depends also how much money they pay them to have more stars..... just for your info

Money doesn't matter at every tier, but it is generally agreed that the best way to become a 5-star carrier is to provide 4-star service and hire Skytrax for customer research.

- average sector length in Europe is much smaller than in Asia or the US (for comparable size narrowbodies) thus the cabin product is more oriented towards a short leg, regardless of of the companies

Agreed that average sector length is a factor in comparing Brussels to carriers in North America or Asia, but not to other European carriers, and I tend to agree with TimTan above. Brussels' service upfront is inferior to its European peers as well.

Average sector length plays only so much a role too. With plenty of experience under my belt, Lufthansa provides a better service upfront than United does on flights of about an hour (hint: on United the flight is "too short" to provide anything but water, if that)

- price points in Europe as also below eg US - just compare eg Ryanair entry point fares with Southwest and you'll see that in the US the lowest promo fair is higher than the average revenue per passanger Ryanair makes in Europe including all ancilliaries; lower price result in lower service levels

But Brussels is not cheaper than its European peers upfront, at least that I have noticed.

Also the low-fare reference in the US nowadays is Spirit. Southwest's evolution is what Brussels needs to watch. Southwest's fares are generally in line with the legacy carriers now, to a point assigned seating and premium seats are coming. Why? Because when you charge as much as Delta, United..., you better provide the same service. Southwest has tons of market research showing this is the cost to retain the loyalty of their more frequent fliers.

[oldblueeyes]

My point is that SN is not a full flag carrier yet. Thus this may be a process not finished yet.

The second thing it that the provider of a product tends to deliver that what the core group or vast majority of it's target group appreciates. If one is outside this group but still using the product, obviously there would be some trade off in not getting your expectations fulfilled.

One example: we learned from interviews that on Africa routes, the average baggage per passenger is 60kg. Thus likely the expectation of the average traveller on those routes may be to be sure to get the luggage in the plane, to have a tariff with a fair pricing for heavy weights at cost of of let's say more frequencies with a A321LR. If one is flying business, this combination may be of course not ideal and one would see things other way round.

[DannyVDB]

Hi all,

I just saw that OO-SFJ and OO-SFP will be repainted in March 2025 and 2025 (which month?) respectively.

See https://sites.google.com/view/europeanairlinefleets/bel

Does this mean that no other A333 will be repainted before the summer season?

Happy 2025!

Danny

[A321Lufthansa]

How long should OO-SSY remain in SN fleet? Rumors had it that it would be taken for just 2 years. And if nothing has changed, it has just around 1 month remaining time.

[DannyVDB]

Not sure,

SN announced there would be a growth from 44 to 50 planes this summer: 11 long-haul (+1), 4 from Baltic (+4), 35 short- and medium haul (A319, A320, A320neo, so +1). The 35 is the current number. So unless another plane is coming in, I don't see OO-SSY leaving ...

Just my 2 cents,
D

[nordikcam]

Not sure,

SN announced there would be a growth from 44 to 50 planes this summer: 11 long-haul (+1), 4 from Baltic (+4), 35 short- and medium haul (A319, A320, A320neo, so +1). The 35 is the current number. So unless another plane is coming in, I don't see OO-SSY leaving ...

Just my 2 cents,
D

If I remember well SN said 49 planes...for this summer...in a press release !

[DannyVDB]

Nope, this is what they said in the press release:

"From April till the end of October 2025, Brussels Airlines will operate 11 long-haul aircraft (Airbus A330) and 35 short- and medium-haul aircraft (Airbus A319/320). In addition to its own fleet, 4 Airbus A220 from Air Baltic will operate on behalf of the Belgian carrier during the summer season. This will bring the overall capacity of Brussels Airlines during summer 2025 to 50 aircraft, serving 91 destinations. For reference: in summer 2024, the airline operated 44 aircraft."

See https://press.brusselsairlines.com/brus ... extra-jobs

Cheers,
Danny

[nordikcam]

Ok ! My mistake...

[Atlantis]

Ok ! My mistake...

It's a forum, no worries

[DannyVDB]

Indeed no worries

I just saw that OO-SFH is coming back to Brussels. It flew yesterday from manila to Abu Dhabi. Will do the Abu Dhabi - Brussels section this evening/night.
It is scheduled to do BRU-JFK already on Sunday (5/01). That seems a bit optimistic to me ...

At the same time OO-SFG will leave for Abu Dhabi today (4/01), so yet another that will get C or D-checks (I assume in Manila again) ...

Cheers,
Danny