Brussels Airlines in 2024

[lumumba]

Are this numbers in % or total?
Because frankly speaking just look to the BRU-JFK flights I have difficulties to believe it's the same from Frankfurt or Munich?!

It''s a percentage. It is also a combination of canceled and delayed flights. But the statistics are not invalidated just because they do not fit your preconceived notion. Again, a lot of that information is public. Rather than complain about cancellations that don't even affect you, then complain some more when presented with information contradicting your opinion, maybe do your research. A side-by-side comparison of Brussels with some of its competitors would be a very constructive post. And who knows, maybe Brussels is doing far worse than Lufty in 2024.... Or maybe you'll have to get off that horse...

I'm talking about it because it affects me, I'll give you an example in Kinshasa last year I had 2 cancellations with Brussels Airlines and with Air France 0 and it's been like that for years at the time they put us in a old Tristar when we where lucky and they hadn't canceled the flight.

We need to stop being aggressive here, it's not an impression, it's a fact I have 35 years experience on this line.
It's the weak point of Brussels Airlines let's discuss about to understand!

And I'm not even talking about the last minute schedule change where we end up with one flight per week to Luanda it affects my company!

[rwandan-flyer]

You make a confusion between opinions and facts. Opinions are manliy based on our perceptions and we have all bias. Facts are based on studies and various sources to draw conclusion (can be proven true or false through objective evidence) which can be sometimes diffents from our perceptions.

If you want to make a comparison. During one year, take all Air France flights to Africa on destinations served also by SN. Same thing about US routes, however to New York Air France operates between 6 anf 7 flights a day and between 1-2 flights a day to Washington.

[lumumba]

You make a confusion between opinions and facts. Opinions are manliy based on our perceptions and we have all bias. Facts are based on studies and various sources to draw conclusion (can be proven true or false through objective evidence) which can be sometimes diffents from our perceptions.

If you want to make a comparison. During one year, take all Air France flights to Africa on destinations served also by SN. Same thing about US routes, however to New York Air France operates between 6 anf 7 flights a day and between 1-2 flights a day to Washington.

We have to stop that I travel 35 years to Kinshasa and Luanda first with Sabena and after with Brussels Airlines I use mostly 2 Airlines and since 2002 with 22 years of experience I can tell you there us no picture between AF and BA I had a lot of canceled flights and to tell you everything I never never had a canceled flight on AF if this is not enough I don't know!

Now we can move on to something else I would like to understand, that's the most important thing here I'm flying and will always fly Brussels Airlines but this IS there weak point.

[rwandan-flyer]

I work in Aviation since almost 15 years (+ 20 years of avgeeks) but outside my job, there are many things that i don't know.

There are many differents jobs. Outside my job i have knowledge because every day i m in contact with differents aviation staff every day because like many people i have always some questions.I read some books or magazines. I learn many things every day and sometimes if it changes my perception.

However it's not enough for me to know everything in aviation. If tomorrow i have to spend one day in an Airline operations center or as a customer service agent, i would be lost, even if i m with the best instructor.

That's why i often put many links for example i put a link few days ago about why some airline decide to buy second hand aircraft instead of to lease aircraft. I don't have any knowledge about fleet management, however this link can give some interesting informations for us.

There is no reason to be ashamed not knowing everything . The advantage of an aviation forum is that you have some people working (or have worked) in aviation and depending their job, they can give informations to better understand the world of aviation

[oldblueeyes]

You make a confusion between opinions and facts. Opinions are manliy based on our perceptions and we have all bias. Facts are based on studies and various sources to draw conclusion (can be proven true or false through objective evidence) which can be sometimes diffents from our perceptions.

If you want to make a comparison. During one year, take all Air France flights to Africa on destinations served also by SN. Same thing about US routes, however to New York Air France operates between 6 anf 7 flights a day and between 1-2 flights a day to Washington.

We have to stop that I travel 35 years to Kinshasa and Luanda first with Sabena and after with Brussels Airlines I use mostly 2 Airlines and since 2002 with 22 years of experience I can tell you there us no picture between AF and BA I had a lot of canceled flights and to tell you everything I never never had a canceled flight on AF if this is not enough I don't know!

Now we can move on to something else I would like to understand, that's the most important thing here I'm flying and will always fly Brussels Airlines but this IS there weak point.

If there is a chance of 1:100.000 to be hit by a train, there will be one unlucky person hitted. But that personal experience is not relevant in big numbers.

Again, see the whole picture by all traffic, alternatives offered within alliances and joint ventures and so on and so on. The figures may be less dramatisch, otherwise customers would not book.

This doesn's say that things can't be improved, or they are great or etc etc.

And sometimes you may have to accept a brutal reality : what if your destination flights are non core in the big picture , so end of the tail ( thus easy to sacrifice) and you are not one of the core customers as defined by the airlines strategy?

Put it simple, all airlines want to earn money, but they all cover different segments.

[lumumba]

You make a confusion between opinions and facts. Opinions are manliy based on our perceptions and we have all bias. Facts are based on studies and various sources to draw conclusion (can be proven true or false through objective evidence) which can be sometimes diffents from our perceptions.

If you want to make a comparison. During one year, take all Air France flights to Africa on destinations served also by SN. Same thing about US routes, however to New York Air France operates between 6 anf 7 flights a day and between 1-2 flights a day to Washington.

We have to stop that I travel 35 years to Kinshasa and Luanda first with Sabena and after with Brussels Airlines I use mostly 2 Airlines and since 2002 with 22 years of experience I can tell you there us no picture between AF and BA I had a lot of canceled flights and to tell you everything I never never had a canceled flight on AF if this is not enough I don't know!

Now we can move on to something else I would like to understand, that's the most important thing here I'm flying and will always fly Brussels Airlines but this IS there weak point.

If there is a chance of 1:100.000 to be hit by a train, there will be one unlucky person hitted. But that personal experience is not relevant in big numbers.

Again, see the whole picture by all traffic, alternatives offered within alliances and joint ventures and so on and so on. The figures may be less dramatisch, otherwise customers would not book.

This doesn's say that things can't be improved, or they are great or etc etc.

And sometimes you may have to accept a brutal reality : what if your destination flights are non core in the big picture , so end of the tail ( thus easy to sacrifice) and you are not one of the core customers as defined by the airlines strategy?

Put it simple, all airlines want to earn money, but they all cover different segments.

It's a 22 years experience from the beginning of Brussels Airlines and if Kinshasa is not important for them than I don't understand nothing.

This doesn't explains why it happens I real hope you are not ahead of a airline because putting your head in the sand is not the way to improve in fact I'm tired of people denying the problem.

And believe me Kinshasa is not an easy destination to sacrifice when a flight doesn't happen you wait until the next day or even longer so advise for you to find out a little better before saying anything,maybe you too should do a little research before saying stupid things.

Speaking of money I think that because of these cancellations they lost a lot of customers.
Africa is a small market with a small clientele but they travel a lot and I can tell you that there are many who have dropped out mostly high yield.

For the expatriate community for example it is generally small communities and they talk among themselves information go fast what I am saying here is a refrain known in Kinshasa and Luanda I hope know we can have somebody than can explain the reason why.

And to be clear I hope that Brussels Airlines becomes a great success and I love to fly with them.

[convair]

We have to stop that I travel 35 years to Kinshasa and Luanda first with Sabena and after with Brussels Airlines I use mostly 2 Airlines and since 2002 with 22 years of experience I can tell you there us no picture between AF and BA I had a lot of canceled flights and to tell you everything I never never had a canceled flight on AF if this is not enough I don't know!

Now we can move on to something else I would like to understand, that's the most important thing here I'm flying and will always fly Brussels Airlines but this IS there weak point.

If there is a chance of 1:100.000 to be hit by a train, there will be one unlucky person hitted. But that personal experience is not relevant in big numbers.

Again, see the whole picture by all traffic, alternatives offered within alliances and joint ventures and so on and so on. The figures may be less dramatisch, otherwise customers would not book.

This doesn's say that things can't be improved, or they are great or etc etc.

And sometimes you may have to accept a brutal reality : what if your destination flights are non core in the big picture , so end of the tail ( thus easy to sacrifice) and you are not one of the core customers as defined by the airlines strategy?

Put it simple, all airlines want to earn money, but they all cover different segments.

It's a 22 years experience from the beginning of Brussels Airlines and if Kinshasa is not important for them than I don't understand nothing.

This doesn't explains why it happens I real hope you are not ahead of a airline because putting your head in the sand is not the way to improve in fact I'm tired of people denying the problem.

And believe me Kinshasa is not an easy destination to sacrifice when a flight doesn't happen you wait until the next day or even longer so advise for you to find out a little better before saying anything,maybe you too should do a little research before saying stupid things.

Speaking of money I think that because of these cancellations they lost a lot of customers.
Africa is a small market with a small clientele but they travel a lot and I can tell you that there are many who have dropped out mostly high yield.

For the expatriate community for example it is generally small communities and they talk among themselves information go fast what I am saying here is a refrain known in Kinshasa and Luanda I hope know we can have somebody than can explain the reason why.

And to be clear I hope that Brussels Airlines becomes a great success and I love to fly with them.

I agree that Kinshasa should be a very important destination for SN; and I bet it's more profitable than New York. Can you tell us what is the average load factor; also for Luanda?

[lumumba]

If there is a chance of 1:100.000 to be hit by a train, there will be one unlucky person hitted. But that personal experience is not relevant in big numbers.

Again, see the whole picture by all traffic, alternatives offered within alliances and joint ventures and so on and so on. The figures may be less dramatisch, otherwise customers would not book.

This doesn's say that things can't be improved, or they are great or etc etc.

And sometimes you may have to accept a brutal reality : what if your destination flights are non core in the big picture , so end of the tail ( thus easy to sacrifice) and you are not one of the core customers as defined by the airlines strategy?

Put it simple, all airlines want to earn money, but they all cover different segments.

It's a 22 years experience from the beginning of Brussels Airlines and if Kinshasa is not important for them than I don't understand nothing.

This doesn't explains why it happens I real hope you are not ahead of a airline because putting your head in the sand is not the way to improve in fact I'm tired of people denying the problem.

And believe me Kinshasa is not an easy destination to sacrifice when a flight doesn't happen you wait until the next day or even longer so advise for you to find out a little better before saying anything,maybe you too should do a little research before saying stupid things.

Speaking of money I think that because of these cancellations they lost a lot of customers.
Africa is a small market with a small clientele but they travel a lot and I can tell you that there are many who have dropped out mostly high yield.

For the expatriate community for example it is generally small communities and they talk among themselves information go fast what I am saying here is a refrain known in Kinshasa and Luanda I hope know we can have somebody than can explain the reason why.

And to be clear I hope that Brussels Airlines becomes a great success and I love to fly with them.

I agree that Kinshasa should be a very important destination for SN; and I bet it's more profitable than New York. Can you tell us what is the average load factor; also for Luanda?

For LAD they have between 60 to 80 passengers(and it was always like that even in the 90s but then they had a restriction till 60 passengers in the 90s but I don't know why)and in general with a stop in LAD or not the load factor is very good to FIH I would say almost always above 70% also in C,in my opinion a daily flight to FIH without LAD could be working and would be much more confortable for the transit pax sure from the USA.

If today you want to dissociate Luanda from Kinshasa you are obliged to add a destination or operate the line with an A321LR.
There Timetable is very convenient from the USA when you fly to Luanda AF or LH departures to Luanda are at night means that all the transit pax has to wait a couple of hours this is not the case with Brussels Airlines but knowing that the flight can be stretched to almost 11h it lose a part of his attraction.

But they lost market share in LAD when I started flying to Luanda they was just Sabena Aeroflot TAP and TAAG and Cubana.


For FIH that's another story à lot of airlines stop flying after the riots and never came back like TAP LUFHANSA SWISS but now you have Qatar Turkish Ethiopian etc...

[TimTam]

What an iconoclast suggestion, when God does not want to hear about the A321(X)LR. What about abandoning LAD ? Would make sense to me, but apparently I have no grey cells.

[lumumba]

What an iconoclast suggestion, when God does not want to hear about the A321(X)LR. What about abandoning LAD ? Would make sense to me, but apparently I have no grey cells.

Correct there aren't many options,Brazzaville en route to Luanda or Windhoek after...or the A321!
But if they lose the right to fly daily(FIH) this wouldn't be a choice anymore but a problem.

[rwandan-flyer]

An interesting study from Airbus on the routes which represent the greatest potential in Africa, but for no airline can be found (although for most of these routes were operated by airlines in the past).

On London Entebbe, Brussels Airlines has 11% of market share and Brussels Airport 5%, despite huge comeptition from KLM, Qatar Airways, Emirates, Egytpair, Kenya Airways, Ethiopian Airlines, Turkish Airlines. If i have well understood 3% of people make a transit via Kigali but it looks by using the RwandAir Brussels Kigali service (3% KGL BRU). I guess that people then fly with British Airways or Brussels Airlines between London and Brussels

The resuming of BRU NBO will probably enable for SN to attract more pax from Washington

There is the Capte Town Brussels in this list. Air Belgium had 45% of market share from Bru when they were operating the non stop flight, followed by Emirates and Ethiopian Airlines. Lufthansa is not in the top 3.

RwandAir has good performance for London Harare and London Entebbe. We often find Ethiopian, Kenya Airways, Emirates, Delta, United Airlines Air France, KLM.

Unsurprisingly for people following air transport news in Africa, people are ready to make big detours via the Middle East to go to Africa from Europe or North America, notably on a Washington, Nairobi or , Lagos Houston (there are more people transiting via Doha than via CDG or London Hethrow) a Lagos Manchester.

Very surprising for Turkish Airlines which is not among the best performer on these routes (Intra Africa routes not included) has a huge network and high frequencies in Africa. Same thing with Lufthansa on route between North America and Lagos where AF, KLM or Middle East airlines are often ahead.

https://www.airbus.com/sites/g/files/jl ... -_2024.pdf

[brabel]

So, according to SN, 1.2 million passengers will fly with them in July and August.
According to BRU airport, 5 million passengers will fly to and from Bru in July and August.

This means SN will capture about 25% of all passenger traffic through BRU.
Are they losing marketshare?

[oldblueeyes]

Try to think logically:

BRU airport had pre Covid a trafic of approx 25 Mio pax. Thus 5 mio in the 2 summer peak months is not unusual as an expectation. With 22 Mio last year, likely that the airport would hit the 25 mio again.

Brussels Airlines had 8,3 Mio pax last year, so 37% market share by pax ( note here the airlines are counting on sold passenger seat miles and not on pax, unless they do Ryanairlike PR). Likely with small growth it should reach something below 9 Mio this year ( like for like, but we may take the impact of strikes out).

So in one hand there is a small market share decrease at the airport.

Questionable if there is a decrease at all, or BRU does not benefit from shifting of routes from CRL, so in the whole market there would be a different view.

And yes, the summer peak is driven by a lot of charters and leisure offerings, thus in the relation the figures may be pretty accurate.

[Atlantis]

Try to think logically:

BRU airport had pre Covid a trafic of approx 25 Mio pax. Thus 5 mio in the 2 summer peak months is not unusual as an expectation. With 22 Mio last year, likely that the airport would hit the 25 mio again.

Brussels Airlines had 8,3 Mio pax last year, so 37% market share by pax ( note here the airlines are counting on sold passenger seat miles and not on pax, unless they do Ryanairlike PR). Likely with small growth it should reach something below 9 Mio this year ( like for like, but we may take the impact of strikes out).

So in one hand there is a small market share decrease at the airport.

Questionable if there is a decrease at all, or BRU does not benefit from shifting of routes from CRL, so in the whole market there would be a different view.

And yes, the summer peak is driven by a lot of charters and leisure offerings, thus in the relation the figures may be pretty accurate.

We will not reach 25 million pax this year at all. Last year we had even 800.000 pax less than prognosed. 23 million was prognosed but only reached 22.2 million.

At this moment we have 700.000 pax more than last year, Jan-May

We are not double digit growing.

[Boavida]

I want to talk about the (in)visibility of Brussels Airlines at Brussels Airport.

Before the 2016 attacks (already 8 years ago), SN had its own very visible ticketing desk in the departures hall. Today, it's hidden at the back of the terminal between all the other desks (handlers, airlines,...) and has the exact same (very dated) 'design'. Visibility: 0. Esthetics: 0. Same for the checkin-rows. Nothing special, just between the other airlines/flights.

I notice that in other airports, the home carrier gets premium locations and is very visible.

When I passed through Zurich a few weeks ago, I noticed that the SWISS branding was everywhere.









I really hope that with the (much, much needed) renovation of the departure hall, SN will get a dedicated and branded check-in area, as it should be for a home carrier.

[lumumba]

I want to talk about the (in)visibility of Brussels Airlines at Brussels Airport.

Before the 2016 attacks (already 8 years ago), SN had its own very visible ticketing desk in the departures hall. Today, it's hidden at the back of the terminal between all the other desks (handlers, airlines,...) and has the exact same (very dated) 'design'. Visibility: 0. Esthetics: 0. Same for the checkin-rows. Nothing special, just between the other airlines/flights.

I notice that in other airports, the home carrier gets premium locations and is very visible.

When I passed through Zurich a few weeks ago, I noticed that the SWISS branding was everywhere.









I really hope that with the (much, much needed) renovation of the departure hall, SN will get a dedicated and branded check-in area, as it should be for a home carrier.

Yes that's true it's the same with Lufthansa in Frankfurt and Munich I don't know why it's not like that in Brussels?!

[TimTam]

In Agathe Christie's novel the Belgian detective, Hercule Poirot often said that to determine the identity of the culprit, one has to make one's little grey cells work...

[oldblueeyes]

Yes, use the brain.

If you own something or use it exclusively, you put your brand on.

LH co-invested directly into terminal 2 in Munich and is exclusively there. Of course, earning in ground handling as well.

In FRA, Terminal 1 A and Z and partiall c are exclusive for LH and it's partners.

SWISS is using some doch ecclusively in ZRH, has a dominant Position and no no fringe airlines around.

You get whst you pay for. And you pay if you earn the money.

[sn26567]

Brussels Airlines is an official sponsor of the two national football teams, the Red Devils and the Red Flames. When the Red Devils travel abroad, SN usually provides transport on A320 OO-SNO ("Red Devils/Red Flames" livery). The latest example was the departure to Stuttgart for the Euro 2024.

Tonight, the Red Flames were playing against the World champions, Spain, in A Coruña. The Belgian team, however, did not travel on OO-SNO, nor on any SN plane. Are the women's team worth less than the men's team? How did they travel to Spain, by the way? (The picture hereunder is from our archives)

[Boeing767copilot]

Brussels Airlines is an official sponsor of the two national football teams, the Red Devils and the Red Flames. When the Red Devils travel abroad, SN usually provides transport on A320 OO-SNO ("Red Devils/Red Flames" livery). The latest example was the departure to Stuttgart for the Euro 2024.

Tonight, the Red Flames were playing against the World champions, Spain, in A Coruña. The Belgian team, however, did not travel on OO-SNO, nor on any SN plane. Are the women's team worth less than the men's team? How did they travel to Spain, by the way? (The picture hereunder is from our archives)

BrusselsAirlines_RedFlames.JPG

Maybe with a Saab 2000 (50 seats) from Scandinavian ACMI-operator Frost Air?