CRL will be closed Wed. 20/04/2016 morning

[MD-11forever]

Apparently, Belgocontrol will hire 15 temporary Atcos from Scandinavia:

http://www.standaard.be/cnt/dmf20160420_02248098

[Jetter]

^^ That sounds like a smart solution. I hope that'll also make Belgacontrol staff understand they're not irreplaceable, and act accordingly.

[JAF737]

^^ That sounds like a smart solution. I hope that'll also make Belgacontrol staff understand they're not irreplaceable, and act accordingly.

Do you have a clue of what's going on, or is your knwoledge limited to HLN.BE?

[Nevihta]

^^ That sounds like a smart solution. I hope that'll also make Belgacontrol staff understand they're not irreplaceable, and act accordingly.

By the way, it's Belgocontrol, not Belgacontrol...
Smart people start to understand what's going on... and start looking on the management rather than the atcos

[Passenger]

Smart people know that Belgocontrol's management didn't want to throw oil on the fire, and therefore announced that illness caused the closure. Smart people don't believe in a sudden outbreak of flu that is strictly limited to Steenokkerzeel (last week) and Charleroi (yesterday morning). Smart people know that Belgocontrol's management is blackmailed by a handful of people in an absolute monopoly position. Smart people know that the closure of Charleroi was indeed part of the ongoing power play by atco's who don't want to give in on their privileges. Smart people know that the unions (including the guild) will not make the mistake again to plan a strike via email.

By the way: I also read HLN.be often because it's the fastest news site in the north. HLN.be has the most staff on editor's level and therefore reports Belga news sooner then the other Flemish online newspapers. Only deredactie.be (state tv VRT) is sometimes faster then HLN.be (specially for trade union news).

[EBBU]

'"The reason that there are so few good conversationalists is that most people are thinking about what they are going to say and not about what the others are saying."

[Crosswind]

'"The reason that there are so few good conversationalists is that most people are thinking about what they are going to say and not about what the others are saying."

So true. Especially on this thread, I would say. Between fantasies and dreams, it's just unbelievable to see how deeply naive people are... I have the habit to call them "fast and cheap thinkers". Here is the perfect example.

What an amazing world...

[Jetter]

^^ That sounds like a smart solution. I hope that'll also make Belgacontrol staff understand they're not irreplaceable, and act accordingly.

Do you have a clue of what's going on, or is your knwoledge limited to HLN.BE?

My opinion about the ATCO's is enterily based on ATCO's themselves. That is Maryse Meulemans who said that 'any flexibility is only helping management', instead of mentioning that flexibility can be expected for the salaries ATCO's receive and is helping the Belgian aviation sector. That's the way a honorable ATCO would think, but sadly egoism and own interests are more prominent among Belgocontrol staff. Also I heard Bjorn Borrey say that the problem was a lack of congedagen. So thanks for worrying about me but my knowledge isn't limited to HLN.

[Crosswind]

Live in community implies rights and duties. ATCO's denounce problems since years, neither mngment nor government did a single move. This is a massive error from them. Don't ask people to pay for your personnal error, it's simply from other ages...

Pay on time, give annual leave on time, hire enough people and S.The F.U. This rule must apply everywhere, everytime, both in the public and in the privé.

Or, soon, would you ask my life for the "bien public" ? To make children working at factory ? No way.

[sean1982]

Pay on time, give annual leave on time, hire enough people and S.The F.U. This rule must apply everywhere, everytime, both in the public and in the privé.

This post only proves even more how far you are removed from reality.

[Crosswind]

No at all. My world is a world of universal rules. Your world is a world of one way power disguised as honorable value. Your world says "me", mine says "our". Your world promote the one, mine grows to a better life for everybody. Your world is to assume its mistakes by others.

And your reality is a pure fiction.

[Jetter]

Live in community implies rights and duties. ATCO's denounce problems since years, neither mngment nor government did a single move. This is a massive error from them. Don't ask people to pay for your personnal error, it's simply from other ages...

Pay on time, give annual leave on time, hire enough people and S.The F.U. This rule must apply everywhere, everytime, both in the public and in the privé.

Or, soon, would you ask my life for the "bien public" ? To make children working at factory ? No way.

Rights and duties indeed. A duty that can be expected for the right to a 6-figure salary is some flexibility, especially after what happened just before. Massive error by management or not. If this has indeed been going on for years, than surely now isn't the time to take action, but that can wait some months more.

If people would truly live by your rules, how long did you think it would have taken for BRU to restart? Going by your logic everyone could just have said 'this is caused by Abdeslam & co so it's not my responsibility to get things going again'. Implying forced child labor is just a few steps away from some flexibility in exchange for a 6-figure salary is distasteful and shows how out of touch with reality your sense of entitlement is, people at BRU have been been working twice as hard for less than half the salary. Most were happy to do so given the circumstances. The ATCO's living by your rules didn't give a damn about those people by jeopardizing employment at BRU.

[Acid-drop]

Live in community implies rights and duties. ATCO's denounce problems since years, neither mngment nor government did a single move. This is a massive error from them. Don't ask people to pay for your personnal error, it's simply from other ages...

Yes, you are right. Smart people understood from the begining that the start is massive amateurism from the management side.
But smart people have also understood the miserable method (first a failed strike with bad publicity, then a barely disguised blackmail abusing our social security system) used by the guild to pass their message, at the worst time for the belgian economy.
If everybody was using the same method when facing bad management (so pretty much everywhere once in a life time), we would have abulance parked in the middle of the highway to bother the max amount of people, we would have people sabotaging traffic lights, we would have others turning off electricity. Are you serious people ?

[sean1982]

Live in community implies rights and duties. ATCO's denounce problems since years, neither mngment nor government did a single move. This is a massive error from them. Don't ask people to pay for your personnal error, it's simply from other ages...

Pay on time, give annual leave on time, hire enough people and S.The F.U. This rule must apply everywhere, everytime, both in the public and in the privé.

Or, soon, would you ask my life for the "bien public" ? To make children working at factory ? No way.

Rights and duties indeed. A duty that can be expected for the right to a 6-figure salary is some flexibility, especially after what happened just before. Massive error by management or not. If this has indeed been going on for years, than surely now isn't the time to take action, but that can wait some months more.

If people would truly live by your rules, how long did you think it would have taken for BRU to restart? Going by your logic everyone could just have said 'this is caused by Abdeslam & co so it's not my responsibility to get things going again'. Implying forced child labor is just a few steps away from some flexibility in exchange for a 6-figure salary is distasteful and shows how out of touch with reality your sense of entitlement is, people at BRU have been been working twice as hard for less than half the salary. Most were happy to do so given the circumstances. The ATCO's living by your rules didn't give a damn about those people by jeopardizing employment at BRU.

Couldn't have said it any better myself! Jetter for president

[Acid-drop]

It was not only CRL btw. LGG was impacted too.
Heli and co, based in LGG with 11 helicopters will take belgocontrol to court since VFR are/were forbidden.

[Nevihta]

A duty that can be expected for the right to a 6-figure salary is some flexibility,

That simple part shows where you take your informations from... The salary of the ATCOs is public, meaning everyone can find it... as already mentioned here (and it's far from a 6-figure salary)

Besides that, from what salary are you supposed to renounce to claiming some days off, seeing your family, feeling tired...
Not everything is about money...
Safety and human lives are not about money

[Jetter]

That simple part shows where you take your informations from... The salary of the ATCOs is public, meaning everyone can find it... as already mentioned here (and it's far from a 6-figure salary)

The base salary of an ATCO is 75K indeed, but on average it's 144k, so stating they receive 6-figure salaries is correct for most.

Besides that, from what salary are you supposed to renounce to claiming some days off, seeing your family, feeling tired...
Not everything is about money...
Safety and human lives are not about money

I was referring to Maryse Meulemans who called on ATCO's to show 0 flexibility, so don't try to ridiculize my post by implying I expected ATCO's to give up their private lives. There's a world of possibilities between no flexibility and no private life, what I'm expecting from ATCO's is somewhere in between.

Sadly I've yet to hear a single ATCO denounce Maryse Meulemans' position as shameful, neither has she been removed from her position as chairwomen of the BGATC. So I guess her position is somewhat representative for the ATCO's in general.

[jan_olieslagers]

I guess her position is somewhat representative for the ATCO's in general.

That's at least one bridge too far: at best, one could state her positition is more or less representative for the members of her organisation - and it is only expected of her, as a president, to voice their opinion. But the Guild does not stand for a majority of ATC staff, not by a long way.

I keep on believing that most ATC staff, while they may be frustrated at continuing inability and arrogance of management, regret and resist the rigourous measures that a minority decided to apply.

Perhaps the worst thing of all is that the good-will and sense of responsability of many Belgocontrol staff are undervalued, perhaps not even detected, by management. In my observation (which is admittedly from a fair distance), if a day comes when Belgocontrol flounders completely, the current management might well declare themselves totally innocent, and wash their hands like Pilate. I wasn't surprised at all when reading a newspaper comment, only a couple of days ago, which stated "if you thought NMBS/SNCB combines all the worst things about Belgian state enterprises and organisations, you may have to think again: Belgocontrol is at least as bad".

[jan_olieslagers]

And as regards

Maryse Meulemans who called on ATCO's to show 0 flexibility

one will have to admit that ATC staff do have shown a lot of flexibility over the last couple of years. And what did they get in return?

As others have said, the timing of their actions is very regrettable. Apart from that, they have my every sympathy. And no, I am nothing more than a (generally) very satisfied "customer", i.e. a user of their services.

[Jetter]

one will have to admit that ATC staff do have shown a lot of flexibility over the last couple of years. And what did they get in return?

That's a good question and I have a good answer: say they have been flexible for 7 years, than the average ATCO got 1 million euro's in return.

But the Guild does not stand for a majority of ATC staff, not by a long way.

Thats what I thought, but Nevihta (who seems ATCO himself) mentioned it is 80%.