Any chance for a new belgian company?

[teddybAIR]

The goal to give information via Luchtzak is just to have a view or some small feedback on reactions from 'real' aviation enthousiasts. It is just to check what the reaction would be here...

Please, give me a break! Come on: hit me with some jargon because frankly...I don't believe a word you're saying...but I'm probably one of those die hard sceptics, right?

I'm guessing that if you were a real professional who by now has a solid business case, funding, etc. you would realise that the last place to get objective info is on an aviation enthousiast forum? What type of valuable info are you looking for here?

Also, the type of info you release sporadically is of the quality I would expect from my 14 year old aviation lovin' cousin who dreams about starting up his own airline one day. But off course, I could be hugely mistaken and underestimate your sense for entrepeneurship so for the sake of constructivity my advice to you (hey, that's why you joined the forum, right?) would be as follows

> reduce your 'wild' communication on a business plan that is not yet executed. By judging the lack of structure in your communication, chances are that you'll accidentally leak confidential info
> improve your own communication skills: if you're gonna do this, start sounding professional and use the appropriate channels for the appropriate objectives
> realise that aviation enthousiasts on luchtzak.be are not quite representative for your average future customer. We'll just tell you which paintschemes we like, which metal we would love to see flying at bru and how proud we would be of another belgian airline. Frankly, I'm guessing you're trying to base a very rational decision on input from the most emotional environment imaginable
> Etc.

[TAF]

Dear all, after the nice words I find here it might be best not to communicate any further indeed.

Let's have a chat after 01JAN when operations will be live with the aircraft!

The comments only give a boost to do better!

[teddybAIR]

That is the only correct response if you ask me!

[Kabila]

Kabila, indeed there are some good routes left ( bordeaux ? ) but you need more than one bird - you have daily return flights weekly and what with the low hours routes, standing still , nights for maintenance, publicity and crews and sales management aiaiai and rumours that sn will buy some props in the near future... Nice routes isnt everything for a start up airliner... Cxb

Cathay - I think you missed the point of my reply; the point was not having "nice routes". The point of my post was the word "niche", namely niche routes and operate as a niche airline. By that, I don't mean one more copy of SN or a Ryanair look-a-like... with the goal to serve the same destinations and providing the same type of services. No, not one more carrier competing head on with a double daily frequency to New York, Barcelona and/or Bordeaux (was that the best route you could think off by the way?).

By niche I meant offer services to cities with reasonable O&D potential, but that is not served non-stop from BRU, so no head on competition with an established carrier whatsoever. And use moderate size equipment (not more than 150 to 170 seaters), yet operate frequencies at a low frequency (2 to 3 times a week); not daily, to avoid overcapicity. And at the same time provide an innovative and quality product.

Look at Jetairfly, they are a very good example of a "niche" player. They rely completely on O&D traffic, they do not focus on connecting traffic at all. They have found their own routes, frequencies and loyal public and their service is of good quality. They fly brand new 737-800's and at least one 787 is going to be added at one point in time...

And trust me, as said earlier, there are several O&D city pairs out there with enough potential to/from BRU to sustain 2/3 weekly non stop flights.

I could easily provide an example of such a pontential route, sustained by REAL numbers, but with all those critical people on this site, I know I will get shot down quickly. So why even bother wasting my time

[andorra-airport]

I could easily provide an example of such a pontential route, sustained by REAL numbers, but with all those critical people on this site, I know I will get shot down quickly. So why even bother wasting my time

I would be happy to hear what the potential routes you have in mind. Or somebody else? I already heard LGG-Italy, Bordeaux. Perhaps Ostend - UK ?

[jan_olieslagers]

I could easily provide an example of such a pontential route, sustained by REAL numbers

I am just as curious as Andorra-airport. If you really have a brilliant idea, why not act on it, or sell it to an airline? Or do you find it too hard to write error-free?

For myself I do believe in the potential of Ostend-Southend: anybody wishing to revive the historic cross-channel traffic from Ostend has a unique opportunity right now - the day EasyJet start Southend-Brussels the chance is gone. But no, I am not going to act upon that - I have neither the cash nor the connections nor the ambition required.

[Flanker]

It is a shame to see that some people here on this forum always have to criticize new ideas, projects and other stuff. And only because they think they know whats good or wrong.

Please, give it a chance! Maybe they found the gap in the market, maybe they are missing something they think could work, instead of laughing this away, you should support people with ideas and have the courage to start something.

I hope this project will amaze some people with an interesting business model, maybe they think of a charter airline or something completely different. Only they can tell.

I think that open mindedness isn't a strong point of many key members on this forum. Everything has to be correctly gift-wrapped, with the "puntjes op de i" and concrete information, no rumors or idea's.

@tolipanebas/ You're correct but managers typically work under the post holders. Depending on the size of the organization and the nature of the operational agreements (wet lease or not, etc...) some post holders can be one and the same person who works with assistants or "managers" as long as there isn't a conflict of interest between the posts.

There are some niches out of Brussels that could work out. Bordeaux, not really that interesting considering that it's quite far and that Ryanair is already operating from CRL. Maybe for an airline like SN that can offer connections, but then again not interesting with an RJ85.

I am just as curious as Andorra-airport. If you really have a brilliant idea, why not act on it, or sell it to an airline? Or do you find it too hard to write error-free?

Most idea's from field employees never make it to the top of the food chain. Some managers are just not up to it (don't understand), other more smart but greedy managers would find it conflicting with their own idea's or workload and throw it to the bin. Or modify it and make it appear like it was theirs.
Selling an idea isn't really an option because you can't claim money before giving your idea, because you don't know if the other party is going to find it good or not. Again, after giving your idea, you have no leverage to claim a payment.
Act on it, it's easier to say than to do, especially in aviation where road blocks are always plenty.

Me, I prefer to share it here, so I know that someone at the top of the food chain will eventually pick it up. I use good criticizers like Tolipanebas to make the case and maybe (considering context and correctness) it can lead to something that brings value. I'm considering giving it up, given that most efforts seem to be in vain, despite all the evidence.

[regi]

I could easily provide an example of such a pontential route, sustained by REAL numbers, but with all those critical people on this site, I know I will get shot down quickly. So why even bother wasting my time

As long as you don't start to promote+defend Brussels - Lille by Q400NG, you won't be ridiculised I suppose. Give it a try.
Question by a non-specialist: what is the market potential between Brussels and Scandinavian destinations? All year round. Secondary destinations such as Götheborg ( served by SN), Malmö , Tampere ...?

[Flanker]

Brussels-Lille with Q400 or any other prop isn't a bit as overkill as BRU-JFK's 6th daily.
At least you can attract high premium connecting passengers to a 4 million people catchment area of Nord-Pas-De-Calais extending into the 2 million catchment area of Picardie and another 2 million in Haute-Normandie, where there is Africa connection potential and where AF has a monopoly because of the convenience of the TGV rail link.

But no, according to you 130 km is too close to not drive, especially as everyone is young, has a fuel efficient diesel car and is willing to park their car for weeks at 15 euro per day at BRU, instead of taking the TGV included in their AF ticket, from Lille Flandres straight into CDG airport in 1 hour, with departure options every 30 minutes.

[teddybAIR]

I'm spontaneously wondering why you all want to see another Belgian carrier anyway. I'd rather settle for the health and sustainability of our current aviation landscape! Keep in mind that we still live in a country that only has 11 million inhabitants and that we are served by numerous belgian carriers or carriers that have a hub here (Brussels Airlines, Jetairfly, Thomas Cook, CityJet, TNT).

Frankly, I'm quite happy with the flat growth belgian aviation is displaying the last 5 to 10 years. What else do you expect really? Booming business?!

[andorra-airport]

I'm spontaneously wondering why you all want to see another Belgian carrier anyway.
(......) What else do you expect really? Booming business?!

No, not booming business, but I guess there is always place for an interesting niche player. Some routes can be profitable and can make many people happy (what I mentioned before, Ostend-UK?).

[teddybAIR]

What do you mean with niche exactly? Underserved routes? Certain demographic routes that are under-exploited? And why would it be better to have these routes served by a new (small?) player rather than have them embedded in a solid existing carrier?

I mean: it's easy to talk about niche's...but feel free to give some niches that are viable and not yet exploited today! Also realise that an airline cannot survive on just a selection of opportunistic routes. Remember VG? They had identified a niche, namely Armenians who lacked a good link to the US: it was a significant segment, but in the end VG proved not to be viable after all!

Let's just face that aviation is a capital intensive world in which you can only survive if you have a significant scale and can somehow deflect competition from your activities. Doing so requires working with low margins (ever seen the average EBIT of Belgian carriers?) which in turn raises the entry barriers for new entrants.