2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

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RoMax
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by RoMax »

Acid-drop wrote:
3.937.187 pax in 2009 => +33%
JAN 2010 => +36% pax
FEB 2010 => +30% pax

The growth continues ...

Another communication of the airport:
Brussels airlines was complaining that CRL received subsidies from the waloon gov, and since BRU don't have the same, Brussels airlines see an unfair competition.
Answer of Charleroi airport : you are welcome in CRL.

:D nothing else to add I guess ;)
That would be the most stupid idea ever in the Belgian aviation. :lol: But SN is correct, they need to count a lot of tax to their pax, and Ryanair (and other CRL users) don't because of the walloon goverment. Once the Walloon goverment will take away it's support to the airport and by by Ryanair. So the only solution is to decrease the tax in BRU. :?

regi
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by regi »

MR_Boeing wrote:
Acid-drop wrote:
3.937.187 pax in 2009 => +33%
JAN 2010 => +36% pax
FEB 2010 => +30% pax

The growth continues ...

Another communication of the airport:
Brussels airlines was complaining that CRL received subsidies from the waloon gov, and since BRU don't have the same, Brussels airlines see an unfair competition.
Answer of Charleroi airport : you are welcome in CRL.

:D nothing else to add I guess ;)
That would be the most stupid idea ever in the Belgian aviation. :lol: But SN is correct, they need to count a lot of tax to their pax, and Ryanair (and other CRL users) don't because of the walloon goverment. Once the Walloon goverment will take away it's support to the airport and by by Ryanair. So the only solution is to decrease the tax in BRU. :?
First vote federal laws to shut up Brussel complaining about flights above their expensive mansions, return the clock on night flights restrictions and the figures go up automatically. As a famous Flemish said: Just a matter of 5 minutes political courage.

Acid-drop
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

That would be the most stupid idea ever in the Belgian aviation. :lol: But SN is correct, they need to count a lot of tax to their pax, and Ryanair (and other CRL users) don't because of the walloon goverment. Once the Walloon goverment will take away it's support to the airport and by by Ryanair. So the only solution is to decrease the tax in BRU
Most of belgian airlines fly from more than one belgian airport. Brussels airlines is an exception.
I would find normal that Brussels airlines use CRL to enjoy the quality and cost of CRL.

Stij
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Stij »

Acid-drop wrote:Most of belgian airlines fly from more than one belgian airport. Brussels airlines is an exception.
I would find normal that Brussels airlines use CRL to enjoy the quality and cost of CRL.
Most of those airlines don't have a Hub and offer point to point service, small detail.

Cost OK, but quality? Does that include the incompetent, friendly-but-still-arrogant-because-we-can-keep-you-from-flying, we-get-a-percentage-when-we-can-force-you-to-check-in-and-pay-for-your-bag security staff? Does that quality include the lack of a restaurant (no, "Paul" isn't a restaurant) and jet bridges?

If it wouldn't be so cheap to fly out of there, I would avoid the place like the plague!!!

CRL was build as a low-cost terminal, being able to offer cheap taxes, NOT quality as BRU does.

Bru Air's problem is probably not so much related to the lower taxes because of lower quality, but more to the subsidies that CRL (still) gets from the Walloon Government (André Antoine's the-hand-who-feed-you discussion with Wizzair) so it offer even lower (abnormally low) taxes.

Cheers,

Stij

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Conti764
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Conti764 »

Acid-drop wrote: Most of belgian airlines fly from more than one belgian airport. Brussels airlines is an exception.
I would find normal that Brussels airlines use CRL to enjoy the quality and cost of CRL.
Which Belgian airlines? Only Jetairfly and Thomas Cook. They don't have the h&s-system of Brussels Airlines. To add to that, Brussels Airlines is in Star Alliance and there is not a single Star Alliance flight out of CRL, so no possible connection, no feed, nothing...

It works for an airline like JAF since they don't need feeder flights and connections and cater for the local market or to offer clients an alternative to Brussels Airport, but it would never work for SN.

Back in the days when SN was judging if some flights from CRL would be possible, it was a hybrid airline with no ties at all. But things have changed since the LH take-over and the joining of Star Alliance.

So you probably won't admit it, but all in all it is a rather dumb and provoking statement by CRL management to counter a hot issue on which they don't have a real answer.

airazurxtror
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by airazurxtror »

Conti764 wrote: all in all it is a rather dumb and provoking statement by CRL management to counter a hot issue on which they don't have a real answer.
There is not "hot issue" : the alleged "subsidies" to airlines that use CRL are perfectly legal according to the EU rules.
There is no "provoking statement by CRL management" : if Brussels Airlines find that the conditions at CRL are so very advantageous, they are welcome to take advantage of them by coming at CRL. If they don't want to, they shut up.
As Antoine reminded them, SN Brussels Airlines was set up in part thanks to capital provided by the Région wallonne. There was no speaking of "illegal subsidies" at that moment !

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Conti764
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Conti764 »

airazurxtror wrote: There is not "hot issue" : the alleged "subsidies" to airlines that use CRL are perfectly legal according to the EU rules.
It's not because it's legal that it ain't a hot issue.
There is no "provoking statement by CRL management" : if Brussels Airlines find that the conditions at CRL are so very advantageous, they are welcome to take advantage of them by coming at CRL. If they don't want to, they shut up.
On the contrary, it is a provoking statement since they (CRL) very well know that SN just can't move to CRL because accept for some financial reasons there is nothing the airport can offer to be attractive to SN. It is an airport which is build for low cost operations (FR and the likes) and can't cater for a full service airline, especially when this airline stays alive from feeding by international partners they wouldn't have at CRL.

So basicly, CRL management knows SN can't come to CRL. And as so it is a provoking and dumb, or call it childish reaction.
As Antoine reminded them, SN Brussels Airlines was set up in part thanks to capital provided by the Région wallonne. There was no speaking of "illegal subsidies" at that moment !
It was an investment from which the 'Région Wallonne' will take profit when the entire company will be sold. But then again, it might get time the Flemish government does something for SN via the PMV, which once had a stake in Cargo B. I know the government has a lot indirect investments around Brussels Airport, but they should aid Brussels Airlines directly, too. After all, it is the only airline which has BRU as a home base and only operates from Brussels Airport, one of the biggest economical pools in Belgium.

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sn26567
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by sn26567 »

Just as a reminder, it's this week that Ryanair launched its thrice weekly flights from Charleroi to Cracow (Poland - 3 March) and Kaunas (Lithuania - 2 March).
André
ex Sabena #26567

Propwash

Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Propwash »

Flew several times (FR and JAF) in- and out CRL.

Personal CRL ......:
1. Road infrastructure and road signs :thumbdown:
2. Car parking fees :thumbdown:
3. Coffee price :thumbdown:
4. Baggage handling (last time we had to wait over 45 minutes) :thumbdown:
5. Unfriendly security

Acid-drop
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

It's great that ryanair fly also to the east and not leave everything to wizzair.
Cracow is an interesting destination !

airazurxtror
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by airazurxtror »

Propwash wrote: Personal CRL ......:
1. Road infrastructure and road signs :thumbdown:
2. Car parking fees :thumbdown:
3. Coffee price :thumbdown:
4. Baggage handling (last time we had to wait over 45 minutes) :thumbdown:
5. Unfriendly security
May I offer a comment ?
1- very rarely is the road to an airport very easy to find. As for CRL, I take the road to the old terminal arriving from the Carolorégienne, continue and turn round the east end of the runway and then back to the new terminal. When you have made it once or twice, you fin easily the way.
2- the parking fees are about the same as other airports : Brussels, Eindhoven, Lille, etc... Too expensive, I agree, but it's the same everywhere.
3 and 4 - having no personal experience, I'll take your word for it
5 - unfriendly security : I beg to disagree. The security personnel do its job courteously; I make it ring and I am searched every time, always with politeness. They surely are not more unfriendly than at Brussels, for instance, where there are some characters sometimes on duty !

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sn26567
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by sn26567 »

Propwash wrote: Personal CRL ......:
1. Road infrastructure and road signs :thumbdown:
What about Brussels Airport then? We Belgians know that Zaventem refers to our national airport, but what about our neighbours coming from e.g. Lille, Valenciennes, Aachen, Luxembourg, Eindhoven or Breda? Should it not simpler to have road signs referring to "Brussels Airport" rather then Zaventem?
André
ex Sabena #26567

Stij
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Stij »

airazurxtror wrote: May I offer a comment ?
1- very rarely is the road to an airport very easy to find. As for CRL, I take the road to the old terminal arriving from the Carolorégienne, continue and turn round the east end of the runway and then back to the new terminal. When you have made it once or twice, you fin easily the way.
2- the parking fees are about the same as other airports : Brussels, Eindhoven, Lille, etc... Too expensive, I agree, but it's the same everywhere.
3 and 4 - having no personal experience, I'll take your word for it
5 - unfriendly security : I beg to disagree. The security personnel do its job courteously; I make it ring and I am searched every time, always with politeness. They surely are not more unfriendly than at Brussels, for instance, where there are some characters sometimes on duty !
May I reply to your comments?

1. I presume you're a Belgian and an aviation freak and therefore KNOW the area, but imagine a poreigner who rents a car and has to folow the signs, coming from Brussels, early in the morning, when it's dark. He's driving on the A54, because he knows the airport must be close to Charleroi, now he approaches the E42 and there's a extremely small sign, but pretty well visible. So he merges on the E42. We know where we have to take the exit at the R3 (I think), but even for me it's difficult to find the extremely small sign. Imagine what it must like for a foreigner who's not familiar the area: he ends up at Bierset! especially when driving on the left lane.

5. Well, I fly between 40 and 50 times a year, both professionally and private and I never, never have discussions but in Charleroi, and no, it's not because I start with a negative idea. They regurarly find something in my luggage that nowhere in the world is a problem but there.

Cheers,

Stij

Desert Rat
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Desert Rat »

Well at least there's 4 millions other pax, who can find their way to CRL airport without too much problem :mrgreen:

Some news from the CRL airport ex-CEO...


http://www.lesoir.be/actualite/belgique ... 8032.shtml

Acid-drop
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

From Liège (E42) the road signs are very good, and even if you get lost in the country side, you'll always find a sign to go to the airport. You must be blind to get lost there imo.

Stij
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Stij »

Desert Rat wrote:Well at least there's 4 millions other pax, who can find their way to CRL airport without too much problem
That's because even when they missed their flight, they needed to get home and had to buy a new ticket. Probably Ryanair blocked good sings because now they can sell more last-minute tickets. ;-)
With good sings CRL would have had just 3 million pax! LOL

I'm sorry, I know I'm being evil here, you don't deserve that. I flew in on Hainan from Beijing this morning in economy and it wasn't the best flight of my life: I had a window and an aisle seat (Yippie one would say), but in the middel of the night, a Chinese guy wanted the aisle seat and sat himslef on one of my legs. This happened twice.

Seriously, it would have been better to adapt the big illuminated signs and not just "glue" a non translucent sticker (not readable when dark) on these illuminated signs or plant a small sign on the side of the highway. After investing billions in the airport, the cost of these signs can't be so big, even for a low-cost airport. Both depend from the same Walloon region, how hard can it be?

BTW: Weren't there original plans to connect the airport directly to the E42? that would cut of 5 minutes driving time, and less cars would be passing through that small village you're not supposed to drive through.

Cheers,

Stij

Stij
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Stij »

Acid-drop wrote:From Liège (E42) the road signs are very good, and even if you get lost in the country side, you'll always find a sign to go to the airport. You must be blind to get lost there imo.
True, from Liège it's better and once you left the highway, it's OK, but from Brussels it's difficult.

Acid-drop
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

BTW: Weren't there original plans to connect the airport directly to the E42? that would cut of 5 minutes driving time, and less cars would be passing through that small village you're not supposed to drive through.
If the airport continues to grow like that, it would be interesting I guess ...
But the current road system is quite good, with major wide national road all over the place, I've never seen the villages ;)
In fact, if you look the map, this airport has quite a good location !

Stij
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Stij »

I'm talking about the Rue de Ransart and the rue Leon Baras...

Acid-drop
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Re: 2010 Charleroi Airport (CRL) latest news

Post by Acid-drop »

CRL wants to become the 2nd national airport of Belgium : not only low cost but other kind of carrier too with intercontinental flights.
http://www.lalibre.be/actu/belgique/art ... ional.html

It's belga news, so I guess we can find a dutch translation somewhere

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