Airbus won't redesign A350

chornedsnorkack · Post by **chornedsnorkack** » 10 May 2006, 09:14

CXRules wrote:According to the Boeing website, the interior cross section width is the following:

B777 5.86 meter
B787 5.74 meter

Does Boeing say those 574 cm for B787 are interior or exterior?

teach · Post by **teach** » 10 May 2006, 10:06

According to the Boeing website, the interior cross section width is the following:

B777 5.86 meter
B787 5.74 meter

Those numbers are incorrect. The numbers for the 787 are those for the cross section (i.e. the diameter of the fuselage) while those for the 777 are the numbers for the interior cabin width. The numbers in my previous post are the correct ones comparing the cross section of both the 777 and 787. At no point does the Boeing site say that 5.74 meters is the interior cross section.

CX · Post by CX » 10 May 2006, 12:26

Wondering when will the official info be released, i mean they must already have some specs to convince SIA not to order the 787s/A350s yet...

Also will the fuselage be fully new or will it be a heavy modification from the current one? I mean while they are making a 'brand new' fuselage, things can still be based on the current one right? And if it took a year or so just to pen the original A350, wouldn't it take even longer to a brand new thing? Is it even goign to make 2013?

teach · Post by **teach** » 10 May 2006, 15:28

Wondering when will the official info be released, i mean they must already have some specs to convince SIA not to order the 787s/A350s yet...

No doubt SIA and some other airlines have already been briefed on this new plane (and they seem to have made a big enough impression on SIA to postpone their order), but as for us, the public, I'm going to put my money on Airbus stealing the show at Farnborough by presenting the details of this new plane.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 10 May 2006, 16:46

After further investigation, I do find Wikipedia giving the same interior dimension that I presented earlier. Nonetheless, there are the comparison for INTERIOR cross-section

A330-300 5.28 meter (source: Airbus.com) (Note: same for A350)
B777 5.86 meter (source: Boeing.com)
B787 5.66 meter (Based on Boeing's claim that it's 15 inches wider than A350 current design http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/20 ... +twin.html )

Conclusion, 9 across is possible for B787, period!

bits44 · Post by **bits44** » 10 May 2006, 21:14

Airbus to spend 10 Billion on a New A350.

http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pi ... refer=home

teach · Post by **teach** » 10 May 2006, 22:30

After further investigation, I do find Wikipedia giving the same interior dimension that I presented earlier.

More proof never to trust Wikipedia then...

A330-300 5.28 meter (source: Airbus.com) (Note: same for A350)

Incorrect. The interior cabin width of the 'original' A350 was to be wider than that of the A330, despite both having the same cross section.

B787 5.66 meter (Based on Boeing's claim that it's 15 inches wider than A350 current design

Don't make up numbers yourself please. You don't know how Boeing were comparing the interior widths: at floor level? At maximum width? At shoulder level? Either way, the interior cabin width is not 5.66m. With a cross section of 5.74m, that is physically impossible.

Conclusion, 9 across is possible for B787, period!

I don't see anyone here denying that. Several airlines have already opted to put 9 abreast in their 787s. But it's still quite a bit narrower than the 777, where 9 abreast is the standard, and which is capable of 10 abreast configurations (look at Emirates and Thai for example).

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 10 May 2006, 23:13

Quote:
A330-300 5.28 meter (source: Airbus.com) (Note: same for A350)

Incorrect. The interior cabin width of the 'original' A350 was to be wider than that of the A330, despite both having the same cross section.

Please read here: for the Maximum Cabin Width http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamili ... tions.html
http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamili ... tions.html

Please tell me Airbus is wrong!

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CX · Post by CX » 11 May 2006, 11:53

The 787 might do the 3-3-3 for the more budget/short haul routes where comfort can be sacrificed..

SIA again delayed their order, well it is hard to believe now that Airbus actually 'responded' positively to them, that they still opt for full 787s.

chornedsnorkack · Post by **chornedsnorkack** » 11 May 2006, 12:17

CX wrote:The 787 might do the 3-3-3 for the more budget/short haul routes where comfort can be sacrificed..

Already done on A330:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/0719635/L/

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 11 May 2006, 15:21

Forget the numbers for now.

Here's a Boeing's take on this 8 or 9 abreast, again, remember, that's Boeing's take: http://www.boeing.com/randy/archives/2006/04/index.html (it's toward the bottom of the page)

CX · Post by CX » 11 May 2006, 16:00

hey that guy is so biased towards Boeing...

CX · Post by CX » 11 May 2006, 16:05

This Randy guy, stuff him, uses harsh words, don't need to respect idiots like this...

747-8 is a VERY efficient frieghter while the A380 is a VERY inefficient freighter... yes, comparably the A388F is not as efficient, wait until the A389F!!!
And about the range difference, what the heck he is on about? the A388F has 1400nm over the 748F, well your destination might be 1400nm further away from what the 748 can reach, so if a 748 has to stop for fuel, WHO IS MORE EFFICIENT? god damit.

teach · Post by **teach** » 11 May 2006, 16:30

Please tell me Airbus is wrong!

Apparently so, as Airbus themselves have repeatedly said that the cabin of the A350 would be wider than that of the A330/340. It even says so on their site. I quote:

"With a brighter, quieter, wider cabin, the A350 offers you...

http://www.airbus.com/en/aircraftfamilies/a350/

So it indeed appears the numbers on their own site are wrong.

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 11 May 2006, 17:05

Like I said, it's Boeing's take, of course it's biased more or less. I think it all comes down to which freighter gets more order. It's too early to say who's better as none of them is flying at this point.

Maybe Airbus is wrong, but then it's "wider" in what way? Boeing is claiming it's only 3 inches wider, but then "wider" in shoulder width, maximum cabin width, or head width, or what? I'd think Airbus would keep its data current on its website. I'd refer you to your statement, "You don't know how Boeing were comparing the interior widths: at floor level? At maximum width? At shoulder level?" Same apply to Airbus.

RC20 · Post by **RC20** » 12 May 2006, 01:50

SAS_MD80 wrote:I don't fully agree with you. After reading the article in Flight, it seems Airbus could have the right airplane to compete with both the 787 and 777, with a wider fuselage than the current Airbus widebodies and new engines in the 90-100lb thrust range, based on GenX and GP technology... That would leapfrof today's 773ER.

And Boeing just sits still and takes that? Put the same engines on the 777, and or a compostite wing and...........maybe Yellowstone 3.

CX · Post by CX » 12 May 2006, 11:32

Yes that is something that Boeing can do, it seems like they do have the resources to kick Airbus out of the market after the strong 777 and 787orders/sales, but again is that good for a market where you only have 2 companies selling multi-million goods?

CXRules · Post by **CXRules** » 12 May 2006, 15:51

Airbus has to come up with a better plane than the B777 and B787. Remember, the A350 won't be flying til 2012 at the earliest, that's 4 years behind!!! Airbus must have some incentives for airlines to wait that long for the A350, and being a better product becomes very important in order for them to compete.

On the flip side, I think Boeing has already thinking ahead on how to improve the B777 with the B787 technology. Obviously, they're waiting on what Airbus came up with on the new A350. In this market, you cannot afford to sit idle and wait, and it'd be a big mistakes if Boeing does that.

I believe the new A350 will be much better, and it will force Boeing to make a move. I agree that we need more than just two manufacturers, but the competition is still quite stiff and interesting even with just two, isn't it!!!

CX · Post by CX » 12 May 2006, 16:03

I dont' think the 777 will be completely replaced, like i mean they'll make a NG version like the 737 or like the Enhanced version, or maybe new derivatives...

The A350 will still use the same 'heavier' materials than the 787, so will it be actually 'better' than the 787 in performance? Of course if they can make the A350 as large as a A346 and fly as far as a 773ER then it would be great.

I believe a 4-year delay is not really too big a concern, since i'm sure, for example, SIA can live with their current 772s for 4 more years than usual, plus Airbus can give them earlier slots while Boeing 787 slots are full, so for SIA it will probably just be a 1 or 2 year difference. Cathay will order some to replace its A330s and 772s, i can't believe i actually know an insider who told me this, but few months ago i asked him and he said that CX is more interested in 787s than the A350s, but i haven't asked him about the new A350.. But i do anticipate CX will order A350s to replace its A330/340s because of all the similarities it has, and more importantly they dont' need to train former Airbus pilots to pilot the 787s.

the a350 has to be great!

David747 · Post by **David747** » 12 May 2006, 21:17

"I dont' think the 777 will be completely replaced, like i mean they'll make a NG version like the 737 or like the Enhanced version, or maybe new derivatives... "

The B777-300ER is supposed to be replaced by the Boeing Y-3 project that will replace the 747 as well.