Did secret CIA flight land in Antwerp (Belgium)?

[ElcoB]

Saturday, 11/03/2006, it was revealed that

What's your source?

A source from 2002 :http://www.vrede.be/nl/veiligheid/shipspotting.html

[LX-LGX]

I do certainly want to know about it what kind of airplanes land at Antwerp. Why should it not be reported? Fascism starts when we turn our heads and say we didn't know about it.

I totally agree that Guantanamo is unacceptable, and I assume 99% of the luchtzakkers do. But for those who made human rights a topic here: why are you not worried about flights to states, led by socialist dictators?

Fascism starts when we turn our heads and say we didn't know about it.

How many innocent Chinese civilians were shot dead by Belgian FN rifles on the Tien An Men Square? And why don't we demand free democratic elections in Cuba - the last one dated from 30 years ago? If you have a problem with on some evil flights to/from Antwerp, where is your conscience about these weekly flights from Brussels to fascist states like Cuba and China?

[ElcoB]

.......................a lot of things...............

Please this is an aviation forum, there are other forums for politics.

[regi]

Can somebody tell LG-LGX that the weaponry (small : kalashnikov , medium : anti aircraft machine guns on the turrets of the T-62 tanks to heavy calibers : the canons on the same T-62 tanks ) used at and around the big square in Beijing was NOT made or supplied by the belgian company FN at Herstal?
The weaponry of the People Army of China is made in China itself. It are mostly (bad) copies of 1960's designs of the soviets.
Strange remark , to say that FN supplied the chinese army.

[ElcoB]

This place is about aviation and should remain so.

I second that.
If someone feels he has really a point to make outside aviation, he can use the wonderful feature of 'private message'.

[LX-LGX]

Saturday, 11/03/2006, it was revealed that

What's your source?

A source from 2002 :http://www.vrede.be/nl/veiligheid/shipspotting.html

can someone please explain me what weapon transport from Antwerp harbour has to do with with aviation?

my remark was: if we have to consider human rights for aviation matters at Antwerp airport, why don't we consider human rights for aviation matters at Brussels airport, f.e. for flights to socialist fascist states like China and Cuba?

This is not a political statement, because as far as I'm concerned, we don't have to mix up politics and aviation. Not at Brussels, not at Antwerp. I was just pointing out the double moral standard some are showing here.


(regi, good to know you're familiar with the Chinese weapons. I had no idea how the thousands of civilians on Tien An Men Square were killed)

[ElcoB]

This is not a political statement, because as far as I'm concerned, we don't have to mix up politics and aviation. Not at Brussels, not at Antwerp. I was just pointing out the double moral standard some are showing here.

I fully agree with yhe first part here: indeed we haven't to mixup things here on this forum.
Acciusing someone of a double moral standard is an insult you do not on a aviation forum, do that on a political forum or newsgroup, there are plenty of them.

FYI :
* This forum is read by Belgian security services ( civil and military)
* Pictures taken at several airports in Belgium of Israeli, Turkisch, Russian and other planes are used in political dossiers. (find it in the summary's of the discussions in parlement).

I have another life too , but my hobby is about planes. And yes I sometimes have questions about the meaning of things.

[LX-LGX]

Elco, I'm not accusing: I'm just saying that I hate the double standard some are showing here: using the human rights issue for the CIA flights to/from ANR, but not using the human rights issue for flights from Brussels to China and Cuba.

If you look at most of the replies here, you will have to agree that this remark is correct.

[ElcoB]

............ you will have to agree that...........

I do not answer this on this forum.
My only interest here is about planes, so where is your information about this topic ? ( I didn't started it)

Cuban and Chinese flights : start a new topic : I'l be happy to comment and provide additional info as soon as I can.

No hard feelings....

[LX-LGX]

trust you also call this "aviation" ?

Saturday, 11/03/2006, it was revealed that

What's your source?

A source from 2002 :http://www.vrede.be/nl/veiligheid/shipspotting.html

[ElcoB]

trust you also call this "aviation" ?

From this source :

De CIA en het Amerikaanse State Department tenslotte huren permanent een groot magazijn behorend aan een verhuismaatschappij te Deurne.

I indeed made the link with ANR and had a question about it.
Asking questions is needed to find the truth about those planes, also confirmation is needed by more than one source....no?
In the mean time, one of the former announced sources reveals that the firm in question uses the airport of Brussels.

[LX-LGX]

I can also read Dutch. The storage you mention was AWR-2, based in Zutendaal: that's 100 kms from Deurne - and surely not at ANR.

As far as I know, ships use harbours and planes use airports. The link you gave, was only about shipping. Harbours. Thus nothing to do with aviation. Thus political.

I don't want different standards about human rights: I have no problem with CIA flights to ANR, and I don't have a problem with charterflights to socialist anti democratic oneparty states like China and Cuba.

[ElcoB]

The storage you mention was AWR-2, based in Zutendaal

Nope, you are only halfway the document, read it all the way down.
It really was 'Deurne' that triggered my question about the possible involved planes.

[ElcoB]

No relation, really!

There is a possibility.
See this information :http://www.gosselin.be/Airfreight/Airfreight.html

[ElcoB]

......... Let's stick to known facts...............

Ok , maybe I was pushing to hard , sorry about that.

[ElcoB]

Facts :
* A complete database about extraordinary rendition, especially flights, planes and operators
can be found here

* The report of the Council of Europe's special rapporteur has been published on 7/06/2006 and is revealing.

* Belgium is not mentioned in the report, however, footnote nr.208 indicates Belgian government was not cooperative to report.