Plane crashes north east of Athens

[Atlantis]

We don't know what happened in the cabin. Were the passengers at that time even dull like the pilots? I read also that there were a lot children on board, it could be that the parents stay with their children.

The strange fact is that the passengers know that the pilots were dead or almost dead. Was the captain in the cabin?
According to the latest news is that the passengers were found with the oxygen masks on their face. It could be that there was no oxygen enough to help the pilots.

I'm very curious about the black boxes and the investigation.

[SN30952]

The flight and cockpit voice recorders of a Cypriot passenger plane which crashed near Athens Sunday have been found.
Helios flight 522 crashed on a flight to Athens and then Prague on Sunday at 1220 pm (0920 GMT)
The B737 Helios Airways flight HCY 522, with 115 passengers and six crew on board, crashed Sunday morning near historic site of Marathon, 50 km north-east of Athens, while passengers were freezing to death.

Airline Code: ZU
Website: www.helios-airways.com: Server Error
this one works: http://www.flyhelios.com/schedules_current.php

Helios Airways is the first independent airline in Cyprus.
Helios Airways was established in 1999.
It commenced charter operations in May 2000 and scheduled operations in April 2001.

An emergency team is working at Larnaca International Airport. Anybody interested can ring + 357 24 816130 or +357 24 304 704 for information or they can contact Helios Airways on 70003737.

People can also apply to the Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs on + 357 22 401 169 and the Cyprus Embassy in Athens on 00 30 210 7240500 and on 00 30 697 7272724.

Cyprus SAT TV reported that journalists and relatives of passengers were flocking into the cafe of Larnaca Airport waiting for any official information on the catastrophe.

[Avro]

Could it be that if both pilots are unconcious, no passenger or crew can enter the cockpit to try something because of the new "closed-door" regulations scince 9/11 ?

Very good question indeed !! But if there is a problem with the Airco system on the plane I would think that both cabin and flightdeck will get the same effects of this. AFAIK there is no separate system for the flightdeck


Chris

[Avro]

According to the latest news is that the passengers were found with the oxygen masks on their face. It could be that there was no oxygen enough to help the pilots.

That's impossible. The oxygen masks and the oxygen which the pilot get trough their mask are different systems.

And AFAIK the O2 reserve lasts longer for the pilots than for the pax.

Chris

[dimitrios82]

This is really a very sad tragedy! From what I heard on Greek television, there were many young children on board the aircraft and the plane that crashed had problems in the past! Many travellers that are suppose to fly today and tomorrow on Helios refuse to fly!! The airplane that crashed was a B737-300 and it was only about 6 years old!

[Airbus330lover]

This is really a very sad tragedy! From what I heard on Greek television, there were many young children on board the aircraft and the plane that crashed had problems in the past! Many travellers that are suppose to fly today and tomorrow on Helios refuse to fly!! The airplane that crashed was a B737-300 and it was only about 6 years old!

Please, no comment about eventual problems in the past.
Until the end of the day, we will have many comments only made by journalists. Problem, for example of flat tyre or old seats, will be transformed in big problems.
Like for AF, we have to wait the result of the investigations.

And.......witch kind of problems and please give your sources in this case

[SN30952]

I read a report saying the cockpit radioed airco problems short after take off.
That same report says toxic gasses (cooling gasses) had escaped for the airco system.
So it is not food intox, but gas intox.

On the other hand if the airco does not work well, the temperature is not controlled in the aircraft, explaining why it was flying low altitude (under the radar)?

Compare the distance LCA-ATH with the circle around BRU to have an idea of the distance.
Heraklion (Nikos Kazantzakis), Kos (Hippokrates), Rhodes (Paradisi/Diagoras) would have been possible diversion airports.

What did keep the crew off from the decision to divert? Technical problem seconded by an human error?

[SilverJET]

I read a report saying the cockpit radioed airco problems short after take off.
That same report says toxic gasses (cooling gasses) had escaped for the airco system.
So it is not food intox, but gas intox.

On the other hand if the airco does not work well, the temperature is not controlled in the aircraft, explaining why it was flying low altitude (under the radar)?

Compare the distance LCA-ATH with the circle around BRU to have an idea of the distance.
Heraklion (Nikos Kazantzakis), Kos (Hippokrates), Rhodes (Paradisi/Diagoras) would have been possible diversion airports.

What did keep the crew off from the decision to divert? Technical problem seconded by an human error?

That's what first came into my mind. Why didn't they return immediately or divert, if there were problems just after take-off. Now it's for the investigators to fill in these questions.

Blessings to crew, pax and families and other relatives

regards
Raymond

[Atlantis]

About the toxic gases: it's not new. It was mentioned in the first journals of today and the radio journals.

[Avro]

I've just read reports of pax flying with Helios the pas year and apparently there was already some problems with air conditioning systems, but I don't know whether this was onn the same plane.

Chris

[beaucaire]

For those understanding german ,an interesting article from " Der Spiegel"
revealing a track-record of problems with the plane in question ( all tied to pressurisation/climatisation )
mechanics refusing to provide flight-certificates after faults had been detected,were fired by the company.....

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,369752,00.html

[Avro]

So what I read seems to be correct

It doesn't look good for Helios if this is true.

Chris

[Pluto777]

Lack of good service and commercial stress caused the Cyprus accident !
The problems with the airco were already mentioned 3 times !
The charter direction probably stayed "pushing" about keeping this plane in the air.
A few years ago, I was active as "mecano" in a Brussels hangar... unbelievable how they, sometimes, take a walk with safety regulations, when the commercial stress is high !
Planes with (minor?) malfunctions sometimes have to stay in the air -
" passengers are already checked in and moving them into hotels costs plenty of money to our company ! "

[Avro]

As you say PLuto777 it's unbelievable how safety comes behind economics nowadays

[SN30952]

I've just read reports of pax flying with Helios the past year ..... Chris

You're becoming very systematic too, Chris. I was reading that too....
Here is more reading material:
A Ryanair case
The target list of IASA International Aviation Safety Association

[Atlantis]

A pilot of Tui Airlines Belgium, news VRT 19H, don't understand why the pilots don't had the time to react on the problems and give themselves the needles oxygen.

The investigation will show the weakness of the airline. According to a employee of De Standaard Helios is a small, "unknow" private airline.

This will be also an airline that will be follow on every airport they land, like Onur air, MNG, etc.

I think, like other people had said in this topic, the pressure to fly if high. But you see the consequences.

[SN30952]

...mechanics refusing to provide flight-certificates after faults had been detected,were fired by the company....
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,369752,00.html

...Techniker von Helios gekündigt worden waren, weil sie sich weigerten, ein Flugtauglichkeitsdokument dieser Maschine zu unterschreiben.

If that is true that's the end of Helios: αντίο και μην σας δείτε ποτέ πάλι
And now you need to read and understand Greek!
And, if the 48 youths died because the aircraft was defect, you can be sure Helios is over and out.
______________________
Most people were Cypriots", including a group "of 48 youths on their way to Prague said George Dimitriou, representative of Helios Airways, adding "the aircraft had been overhauled "last week", denying that it was plagued by problems in the past as reported by Greek media".

The plane lost contact with Greek and Cypriot air traffic control 23 minutes after take off.
So it was still flying almost an hour until it crashed?
The B737 was intercepted at 34,000 feet. The fighter pilots reportedly also could see oxygen masks dangling inside the cabin.
These F-16 pilots have seen it happen?
These guys must have had the stress of their live, as probably they would have been given orders to shoot the B737 if it was heading into Athens, as it was programmed.
These F-16 have cameras on board, some precious footage will give decisive information about how the crash happened in Grammatika.

Imagine the stress, the emotions and then have to land a F-16: these guys must have steel nerves.

On Cyprus, several callers to radio and television stations said they experienced severe air-conditioning problems flying on Helios jets in recent months. Some said the cabin was freezing and the crew had to provide them with blankets, while others said it became unbearably hot.

[L-1011]

On Cyprus, several callers to radio and television stations said they experienced severe air-conditioning problems flying on Helios jets in recent months. Some said the cabin was freezing and the crew had to provide them with blankets, while others said it became unbearably hot.

I'd be very careful with such statements, aspassengers could interpret a problem with the heater (or a personal discomfort) as a problem with the wholse system, which is far too complex for them to understand...

(It's like with the AF340, when there were guys saying : "Everything seemed OK until it's engines backed up", while it was just the thrust reversers, which were deployed....

[SkyJet]

...Imagine the stress, the emotions and then have to land a F-16: these guys must have steel nerves. ...

You are worried about the stress of the fighter pilots?
They're just doing their job!
Can't you imagine what the passengers must have gone through,
(if they were still conscious) knowing they wouldn't make it at all ?

[blackhawk]

Two people tried to take the controls of the Cypriot Boeing 737 passenger jet before it crashed near Athens on Sunday killing all 121 people on board, a Greek government spokesperson said.