Brussels Airlines' fleet renewal

[HQ_BRU_Lover]

On a side note, a decision about the longhaul fleet replacement will be taken in 2 weeks. You can definitely expect more news before the end of March.

Exciting!!!

What could be the options ?

330, 330 or 330?

Are you forbidding me for being excited?

[DeltaWiskey]

It is indeed an A330-competition, but that still leaves us some options... I am also a little bit excited about it.

There are already a couple of things known, eg that it will have dedicated Y+ class and wifi.

[nordikcam]

SN has curently 10 old ( except one ) A 330. Could it be 10 younger or 11 or more ? I'm speaking about the number not the type of the aircraft...

[sn26567]

With some schedule and capacity adjustments, SN will probably be able to operate the flight schedules of the 2-3 DH4 and the 1-2 ERJ by the 3 SSJ coming.

If I can easily understand that the DH4s will be replaced by SSJ100s (since the capacity is in the same range), it looks strange to me that an ERJ145 can be replaced by a much larger SSJ100. If those ERJs are gone, SN will have no plane for routes with low loads.

[DeltaWiskey]

It's rather difficult to give you a number, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that they will have 15 A330s by the early 2020's. Their ambition is to become the "Africa leader" instead of the "Africa specialist" and to operate at least 10 A330s dedicated to Africa. (Then there is also JFK/IAD/BOM/YYZ/?? needing some aircraft, so 15 doesn't seem unreasonable to me).

However, I would not expect an announcement for more than 7 or 8 aircraft next month as only 7 leases expire in 2018/2019 (and as earlier communicated).

[nordikcam]

Interesting DeltaWiskey...Thx a lot !

[sn26567]

Just published on Twitter by @SSJ100

[PttU]

Risking to pose a noobie-question: isn't that door on the other side compared to other popular aircraft? And how do those airbridges at the gates handle this?

[A330]

It's rather difficult to give you a number, but I don't think it would be unreasonable to think that they will have 15 A330s by the early 2020's. Their ambition is to become the "Africa leader" instead of the "Africa specialist" and to operate at least 10 A330s dedicated to Africa. (Then there is also JFK/IAD/BOM/YYZ/?? needing some aircraft, so 15 doesn't seem unreasonable to me).

I agree 15 would not be unreasonable. In fact it is only adding 1 long-haul aircraft per year. So let's hope they're more ambitious than that

You could say that 4 aircraft are used for (or will be) for JFK, IAD, YYZ and BOM. That would leave 11 for Africa. However, I hope they will add some more destinations in US or elsewhere. But time will tell.

Looking forward to the news!

[DannyVDB]

I think there are always doors at the two sides of the aircraft

Danny

[teach]

It is indeed an A330-competition, but that still leaves us some options... I am also a little bit excited about it.

There are already a couple of things known, eg that it will have dedicated Y+ class and wifi.

Didn't you write here a while ago that they would be new-builds? Because if that's the case, they'd be dumb not to get the neo. In fact, if they're going for leases (which I expect will be the case) it'll be the only option, as no lessors have newbuild A330ceos left on order, but plenty of neos, for delivery in the time frame SN needs them.

[Magiktrix]

Its quite easy to mount a sale and lease back for new aircraft. Its a classic in aviation.
But not only the choice, the timing and numbers can make a big difference.
Bruair is not the only one in Lufthansa group where fresh aircraft would make sense.
The backlog may be huge, but didn't grow in 2016. Both manufacturer start to eat the backlog.
And the timing between the last CEO and NEO is not full.
A fresh 330 CEO at 342T with RR would be a huge difference, at a fraction of the price
BTW Boeing as the same problem in the transition between 777 and 777X.
And if you dream a bit, you can also try to get productions slots that may become available.
Like the cancelled order of 22 A350 by American Airlines of wich 7 will not be build for now.
There are even 3 A350 ex Sri Lankan delivered to Sichuan and stored

[DeltaWiskey]

Didn't you write here a while ago that they would be new-builds? Because if that's the case, they'd be dumb not to get the neo. In fact, if they're going for leases (which I expect will be the case) it'll be the only option, as no lessors have newbuild A330ceos left on order, but plenty of neos, for delivery in the time frame SN needs them.

I think I only wrote that new builds are a possibility, nothing is decided yet (or at least, not approved by the Board).

I hope they choose the neo as (imho) it shows a long term vision/commitment. It's newer technology, more fuel efficient, less noise (hot issue right now), better payload-range (so more possibilities for >24hrs rotations), higher revenue potential, less maintenance intensive, more reliable, etc. The M&E and Ops departments would also favour this as all aircraft will then be the same standard.
Availability is not as much as issue as SN could still get 2018 deliveries (via a lessor, but the whole fleet is leased anyway, I don't see this as a "disadvantage"). In the end it's all about the lease price, but from what I gather, SN got an attractive offer. I just hope the complete picture works out better than A330ceo's.

We will know soon.

[Boavida]

Let's hope they FINALLY get some factory new aircraft. They deserve it.

[sn26567]

Let's hope they FINALLY get some factory new aircraft. They deserve it.

The three SSJ100s (on wet-lease from CityJet) will be factory new. Other than that, I highly doubt that Muttie Luftie will open its purse for new aircraft for SN.

[teach]

Let's hope they FINALLY get some factory new aircraft. They deserve it.

The three SSJ100s (on wet-lease from CityJet) will be factory new. Other than that, I highly doubt that Muttie Luftie will open its purse for new aircraft for SN.

Lufthansa doesn't need to 'open their purses' for this fleet renewal if the planes are leased, which they almost certainly will be, so that's not really relevant.

[sn26567]

Let's hope they FINALLY get some factory new aircraft. They deserve it.

The three SSJ100s (on wet-lease from CityJet) will be factory new. Other than that, I highly doubt that Muttie Luftie will open its purse for new aircraft for SN.

Lufthansa doesn't need to 'open their purses' for this fleet renewal if the planes are leased, which they almost certainly will be, so that's not really relevant.

Indeed, but the lease of a brand new aircraft is way more expensive than that of a 10- or 20-year old one.

[RoMax]

Lufthansa doesn't need to 'open their purses' for this fleet renewal if the planes are leased, which they almost certainly will be, so that's not really relevant.

Although the initial investment of a lease is much lower, in the end you are still paying off a brand new aircraft in your monthly rates. Of course there are other benefits linked to factory-new aircraft, but don't believe the cost of a new aircraft is not relevant because it's only a lease... When making such important fleet decisions you look at full cost of ownership considering the time you expect to keep them in the fleet (or at leas for an initial significantly long enough period of the fleet plan).

[teach]

Lufthansa doesn't need to 'open their purses' for this fleet renewal if the planes are leased, which they almost certainly will be, so that's not really relevant.

Although the initial investment of a lease is much lower, in the end you are still paying off a brand new aircraft in your monthly rates. Of course there are other benefits linked to factory-new aircraft, but don't believe the cost of a new aircraft is not relevant because it's only a lease... When making such important fleet decisions you look at full cost of ownership considering the time you expect to keep them in the fleet (or at leas for an initial significantly long enough period of the fleet plan).

I am fully aware of that, and at no point claimed the cost was not relevant. My comment was in reference to the idea the planes would be bought, with money from Lufthansa. If they are leased, which is an almost certainty, then I very much doubt Lufthansa will be footing the bill, as that would imply SN doesn't have enough cashflow to pay the leases of their own fleet.

[crew1990]

We can now see some flights operated by cityjet, it looks like the cityjet aircrafts will come back at night in Brussels (no night stop abroad).

In the destinations, I saw some flights to Berlin (first flight of the day), Basel (afternoon flight), Genève (last flight), Bordeaux, Milan, Copenhague and Vienne (first flight).

Also regarding flightradar, OO-SFM went to Abu Dhabi on 3rd march and OO-SFO, OO-SSC, OO-SSI haven't flown for a while (why?)