What are the plans of SNBA ?

[ATC]

Is SNBA allready serving the route BRU-JFK (in partnership with American?) Im allready go twice to New York with Delta! But the are expensive!! So i wanna look for a trip with SNBA.

If I am good informed SNBA does not offer this destination.
I don't understand why ... because many people go to New York.
I think only Delta and Continental offer this route from Brussels.

In september it's the second time a go to New York.

Greetz,
ATC

[sn26567]

Is SNBA allready serving the route BRU-JFK (in partnership with American?) Im allready go twice to New York with Delta! But the are expensive!! So i wanna look for a trip with SNBA.

To go to NYC you have the choice between Delta (JFK) and Continental (EWR); and if you are adventurous, Biman Bangladesh (JFK).

Sabena was of course flying to JFK in codeshare with Delta (twice or even thrice a day), and later American.

Days are gone!

[liebensd]

I think only Delta and Continental offer this route from Brussels.

ATC,

That is probably enough. If you know that they are flying daily with a B767 that are almost 500 people a day. If SNBA would fly to New York than the capacity would be 750 seats a day to New York, and that is probably a lot too much. The only thing what they could do is code sharing for example with Continental, they have already a little agreement with Continental. SNBA need to look at routes where there is less competition, like destinations in Africa. For other destinations they can better make code share agreements.


Greetz,

Dave

[luchtzak]

That's right Dave, and don't forget that you can arrive in JFK with just a small flight to Amsterdam, Frankfurt, London Heathrow and Paris CDG by train! I remember an article on a very well-known website (this article) where they say that Air France is flying 8 !! times per day to JFK!

Enough competition for me!

ciao,

Bart
:rock:

[Avro]

Bart,

Please give us a hint about the destinations, just a hint (i.e. If short, medium or long haul). And say us how many new destinations will be added.

I'd go now for Athens and Casablanca

Ciao
Chris

[luchtzak]

Chris,

in your last 3 messages in this topic you have mentioned them both!

Enough food for thought!

ciao,

Bart
:rock:

[Avro]

Allright thx Bart

But you still didn't told me how many new destinations will be added

Greetz
Chris
:mexwave:

[ATC]

Dave, I agree with you.
750 seats daily are to many for one destination (even New York).

If SNBA is looking for a code share agreement, I am 100% convinced they should take Continental. Their NWR (newark) network is huge + SNBA need a New York connection.
The present agreement with AA (Chicago) is not bad, but the New York destination is a must...

I'll never stop hoping that SNBA will have is own American network.
But has we allready said before, step by step...

greetz,
ATC

[luchtzak]

Chris,

that information is unknown for me, really !

I even don't know how you came up with those 2 new destinations!

ciao,

Bart
:rock:

[vliegtuigfreak]

Our American friends live near JFK airport, so i take JFK with Delta, (If Virgin Atlantic comes to Brussels, il take them, they fly for low prizes to JFK)

Greetingzz
Sonny

[liebensd]

I'll never stop hoping that SNBA will have is own American network.

SNBA can maybe fly to New York with their own aircrafts, that would be nice, but a code sharing is necessary.

There is something that you can not see separate from this topic and that was that topic about SNBA’s fleet renewable. If the will renew their fleet in the future, than you can maybe see their plans for the future in the number and witch aircrafts they order.

Greetz,

Dave

[Avro]

that information is unknown for me, really !

I even don't know how you came up with those 2 new destinations!

Ok, I believe you . I'll stop bothering you with that


Ciao
Chris
8)

[leon]

It takes about 3 years to reach profitability or break-even on a Long Haul route. In that respect, I don't see SNBA opening any Long Haul route in the near future.

The NRT-flights impose multiple problems :
+ impossible to obtain NRT-slots, very long waiting list.
+ The aircraft rotation can not be combined with another Long Haul flight (too small network as opposed to Sabena's at the time). Running a 3x weekly frequency on NRT and nothing else with one full aircraft in the planning would induce too high costs.
Sabena lost 1,2 billion BEF per year on the Tokyo route, with a 80%+ Load Factor and with a vast European network. It would be a very wise decision from SNBA not to open up a Far East destination, also because Lufthansa is claiming a ever dominating position on the EUR-F.EAST routes since early 2001.

+ JFK (or any other US-destination to that matter) : I would not be surprised if American Airlines simply refuses an SNBA-operated Transatlantic flight. Although still in big problems, they remain the biggest airline of the world and will surely want to claim the Master Routes, meaning a higher share of the revenue.

Any other possible new route mentioned earlier is quite low yield, and I would be surprised if current operators want to operate their flights in codeshare. A codeshare can only generate extra revenue if a certain route is flown by 3 or more different operators, which is the fact for most of SNBA's previous codeshared routes. There are no miracles here. If El Al is the only one flying to TLV, they won't be enthousiastic to codeshare (and revenue-share) on this route with SNBA.

I know you could counter my statement that SNBA is quite static with numerous examples, but I was referring to fundamental changes or operating modes that set them apart from the others. And although the introduction of the A319 is a change, on the other hand it isn't, because this introduction was already laid out in the initial Business Plan. So are they introducing the A319s because they consider the moment to be right and the resources to be sufficient, or are they just following the 2001 script, hoping that the Business Plan architects got it right ? I could be wrong, but I have some serious doubts here.

[sn26567]

Sabena destinations not served by SN BA:

Casablanca
Tunis
Cairo
Moscow
Istanbul
Athens
Tokoyo (I think it worked well during Sabena time)

Casablanca: too much competition from cheaper RAM
Tunis: too much competition from cheaper Tunisair
Cairo: not enough traffic, mostly charter destination
Moscow: not enough traffic
Istanbul: cheap competition from Turkish charters
Athens: served by VEX
Tokyo: destination was cancelled by Sabena at the end of its life because of lack of profitability

There are others: Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia, a bunch of African destinations (including JNB), five US destinations, sometimes Brasilian destinations, Chennai (Madras) in India (imposed by SR that wanted to keep Bombay and Delhi for itself), ...

[Sabena_690]

+ JFK (or any other US-destination to that matter) : I would not be surprised if American Airlines simply refuses an SNBA-operated Transatlantic flight.

SNBA currently has no intention to open any long haul American destination. I have been told several times that, IF a second direct flight will be added between the US and Belgium, that AA will operate it (this matches with your theory, Leon).

The advantage for SN is of course the risk: if the route fails, it's AA who will suffer most from the financial consequences.

SN also tries not to have blockspace agreements (they sell as much seats as they can sell, they don't buy for example 40 seats on every flight).

I think that JFK will likely be opened in the future, and operated by AA. Currently, no additional capacity is needed on the BRU-NYC flights, but an economical change (positive than) is expected from 2004/2005. Maybe, when everything gets better, we will see BRU-JFK from 2005?

Im allready go twice to New York with Delta!

You can fly better airlines if you make a connection (which is of course very nice for an aviation enthusiastic, the more connections the better). Why not BA via LHR, LH via FRA/MUC or UA via IAD? If you want to be creative, you can even fly TP via LIS to EWR for a very good price.

(If Virgin Atlantic comes to Brussels, il take them, they fly for low prizes to JFK)

Virgin Atlantic is no low cost. VS is a full service airline, just like BA. Compare their fares with the ones of BA, and you will see that both have on most routes the same (if one lowers the fares, the other follows immediately).

So VS in BRU does not necessarily mean much lower fares (VS is often very expensive).

Regards
Frederic

[sn26567]

If SNBA is looking for a code share agreement, I am 100% convinced they should take Continental. Their NWR (newark) network is huge + SNBA need a New York connection.

ATC, the code for Newark is EWR.

[Avro]

There are others: Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia, a bunch of African destinations (including JNB), five US destinations, sometimes Brasilian destinations, Chennai (Madras) in India (imposed by SR that wanted to keep Bombay and Delhi for itself), ...

Why should they go to JNB if SLR stops it because of a lack of pax

Chris
8)

[Comet]

Hello,

I'm very proud on SNBA, I love SNBA. :dance:

But I'm disipointed in the reaction of foreign people (non-Belgian).
I often communicate with aviation freaks arround the globe and half of them never heard of SNBA and the other half says SNBA will allways be a small airlinecompany with no meaning and will be bankcrupt within 5 years or will be taken over be a huge european airline... :dammit:

I allways defend SNBA :teach: , bacause I think its better to be a small airline with profit than a big airline with loss. (swiss )
But never the less SNBA must expand its long-haule network (american and asian destinations). For example the route BRU - JFK ?
Otherwise SNBA will not be known on other continents (only Africa).

Does anybody knows what the SNBA plans are for the future ?
reactions ?

greetz,
ATC

I can't answer your question ATC, but I can agree with every word you say!! I am "non-Belgian", and I love Belgian aviation as much as you do, and defend it in the same way that you do. I have never flown with SNBA yet, but I did fly with Sabena, and I have flown with VLM, better to fly to Belgium on a Belgian airline than with BA or BD or FR. People think I am mad because I like Belgium and Belgian aviation so much, but I really don't care what they think, they are the ones who are missing out, not me!! I'm glad I found this forum, because it is the only place where there are people who share my views.

[sn26567]

don't forget that you can arrive in JFK with just a small flight to Amsterdam, Frankfurt, London Heathrow and Paris CDG by train!

Right! But who would make a connection when there are direct flights available at suitable times? I would definitely NOT. A connection means minimum two hours more on your valuable time.

[sn26567]

Why should they go to JNB if SLR stops it because of a lack of pax

I didn't say they have to fly to JNB. I only mentioned a list of destinations served by Sabena and not by SN BA.

SN BA must grow to survive, but should not try immediately to be as big as Sabena. Don't follow the example of Craossair that wanted right away to be as large as Swissair.

Chi va piano va sano, e chi va sano va lontano.

Andrea