Will there ever be a Belgian 747 again? + Poll

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The most beautiful aircraft on earth:

 
Total votes: 0

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meerkat
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Post by meerkat »

I feel unable to vote in your poll Lars, as all my favourite aircraft are missing. How could you list the Fokker 70/100 and not include pretty birds like CONCORDE or SR-71 BLACKBIRD?

http://www.habu.org/photogallery.html

http://www.concordesst.com/affleet.html

And what about some of the "ugly ducklings"?

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/273898/M/

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and we will all argue this topic for ever given a chance.
Being older than many other members of the forum means that I have seen many of the old aircraft in service and have fond memories.
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/228520/M/ Perhaps not the most beautiful but very different from the similar jet types we see today. (For the fooball fans amongst you this is the aircraft type that crashed in Munich in 1958 killing many Manchester United players)

I hope that we can see some of everyone's favourites

Meerkat :wink:

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luchtzak
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Post by luchtzak »

Well,

I voted for the Triple 7 Boeing 777 ! :-)

Why? Because I just love those huge engines, power power and power ;-)

ciao,

Bart

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Comet
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Post by Comet »

For most beautiful aircraft (this one always crops up on another forum I post on) what about the Lockheed TriStar? Or the Comet? Or the VC10? The A340 always looked good in Sabena colours, especially with those dark blue engine cowlings, the livery suited the type perfectly.

As for another Belgian 747, I don't think so myself. Sabena never replaced their 747-300s with the 747-400, and they went with the bigger Airbuses, the A330 and A340, and SN Brussels seem to think the same way. It is a shame, but more airlines seem to be going with the larger Airbuses than with 747s now.

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nwa757
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Post by nwa757 »

sn26567: The MD-10 is a DC-10 with an MD-11
cockpit
Onward and Upward...

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Yeah! And the A757 is an A321 with a B757 cockpit :lol: ;-)
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Skystef
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Post by Skystef »

After "my well deserved holiday" 8) its a big shame not to see a B707 in the poll, the mother of all modern jetliners today (besides the Comet).
So definite the beloved non huskitted smokey Boeing 367 dash 80 (see my avatar) and commercial/military variants is the top to me.

SkyStef :twisted:

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Comet
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Post by Comet »

I suppose that you could say that the Comet is the mother of the French Caravelle - identical nose design, very similar cockpit (allowing for the fact that the Comet had four engines and the Caravelle two) and a variant of the Rolls Royce Avon engine (which also powered the Comet 4). Wasn't the Caravelle the first jet to be operated by Sabena?
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Comet wrote:Wasn't the Caravelle the first jet to be operated by Sabena?
If my memory is correct, it was the B707, closely followed by the Caravelle.

A major difference between Comet and Caravelle is the position of the engines: in the wing for one, on the tail for the other. But you're right: the look is similar.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Avro
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Post by Avro »

Don't forget to mention that the Comet had a very bad crash record. This had mainly to do with the engines which were fixed in the wing.

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Comet
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Post by Comet »

Avro wrote:Don't forget to mention that the Comet had a very bad crash record. This had mainly to do with the engines which were fixed in the wing.
The major cause of the Comet crashes (which plagued the Comet 1 variant) was found to be metal fatigue, which originated in the square ADF cut out on the roof in the Comet G-ALYP, which crashed off Elba on 10th January 1954 (the remains underwent forensic testing in Farnborough after they had been pulled out of the sea) and in the Comet G-ALYU, which was immersed in water for pressure testing, the fatigue cracks originated in the corner of the square window. I didn't read much about the engine placements causing the crash, the Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft has the same engine placement as the Comet, and they have a good safety record.
Sabena and Sobelair - gone but never forgotten.
Louise

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Avro wrote:Don't forget to mention that the Comet had a very bad crash record. This had mainly to do with the engines which were fixed in the wing.
I agree with Comet on the Comets: the major (if not the only) cause of the crashes was metal fatigue. A few years later I was studying materials at the University and the professor took the example of the Comet to explain what metal fatigue was. Nothing to do with the position of the engines.

Metal fatigue is the weakening of a metal part due to repeated cyclical movement such as bending or torsion (twisting). This usually happens as a result of the movement of a component in the course of its operation, such as the slight flapping of an airplane's wings when the plane is airborne, but it can also be pressurisation and depressurisation.

The dangers of metal fatigue were dramatically highlighted in the early 1950s, when the first jet airliner, the British de Havilland Comet, went into service. In early 1954, less than 2 years after it had first begun to carry passengers, a Comet broke up in midair over the Mediterranean Sea. A short time later, a second Comet went down over the coast of Italy. Prior to these crashes, two other accidents with fatalities had occurred, but these had been attributed to structural failure brought on by severe weather conditions. In fact, the structural failures were the result of metal fatigue. This was demonstrated when the fuselage of a Comet was immersed in a large tank. The plane's cabin was filled with water and then emptied to simulate the cycle of pressurisation and depressurisation that it would experience in the course of actual operation. After 3,000 pressurisation and depressurisation cycles, the investigators found severe metal fatigue in the form of a 2.4-m crack that extended from an escape hatch window through the frame of another window. It was then surmised that similar cracks in the ill-fated Comets led to rapid structural failures and tragic loss of life.

In response to the hazards of metal fatigue, the aircraft industry substantially modified some of its design and construction practices, among them the use of thicker aluminum skins that were provided with crack stoppers welded in the fuselage interior. Static testing procedures were stiffened, including subjecting the airframe to 50,000 pressurisation cycles in order to simulate the number of takeoffs and landings that might be expected in the course of an airplane's operational life.

Starting new technologies (the jet age for aeroplanes) always involves a learning curve that sometimes ends dramatically. Neverthelesss, everyone recognises that De Havilland (not Boeing) were the pioneers of commercial jets with their Comet.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Comet wrote:The fatigue cracks originated in the corner of the square window.
De Havilland insisted on square windows in the Comet I, because they did not want to have the plane look like a ship's pothole. (The DC3 after all also had square windows, but the pressurisation problems were nil.) After the investigation on the accidents, they replaced the square windows by round ones in the Comet III. The new plane was fine, but it had lost its reputation. The Boeing 707 came along and took over the market.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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sn26567
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Post by sn26567 »

Comet wrote:The Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft has the same engine placement as the Comet, and they have a good safety record.
Seems normal: the Nimrod was a military version of the Comet 4.
André
ex Sabena #26567

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Avro
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Post by Avro »

:oops: :oops: Sorry guys, that I gave the wrong info

Greetz
Chris
:wink:

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