Belgian Defence to replace its A330 by an A321

[sean1982]

A commercial airline should not get involved in army missions :-/

What if the airplane breaks down? (Not so uncommon these days)
On one side the airline needs to pay huge fines to the army for breach of contract and on the other side to the passengers (right to care, rebookings etc...) who will consequently be delayed because Belgian airlines operate with minimum fleet as it is, so unable to back up the strikken "army" aircraft.

Btw, the previous time JAF bidded for the contract with a B763 but was heavily underbid by hifly

[Inquirer]

Probably not going to happen due to the fact that politics plays a big part in the kind of aircraft our country's Air Force operates, but wouldn't a B787 be the best suited plane here? Smaller than an A330-300, yet with more range and cargo space than an A321? A suitable medium sized plane with sufficient range, ideal for our country's airlift may not be available from Airbus, but it may be from a non-EU manufacturer.

[cnc]

a 787 is way too expensive to lease and use for government and military flights.
not to mention the political game of europe flying airbus

[RoMax]

A commercial airline should not get involved in army missions :-/

What if the airplane breaks down? (Not so uncommon these days)
On one side the airline needs to pay huge fines to the army for breach of contract and on the other side to the passengers (right to care, rebookings etc...) who will consequently be delayed because Belgian airlines operate with minimum fleet as it is, so unable to back up the strikken "army" aircraft.

I don't see SN or JAF for example flying for the Belgian Air Component, though it is a frequent use in many countries. Large amounts of troop transports are being done by charter companies that are not directly related to the respective army except for the transport contracts. In the US there are airlines that survive only by providing pax and cargo charters to the US Air Force, but you also have some European charter/ACMI companies that provide the troop transport for many countries.
But Belgium doesn't usually send large amounts of troops, so their need to charter other aircraft except for the 'basic fleet' is more limited.

About the A321...well I think it's quite a good fit for the Belgian Air Component. The A333 was nice and gave Belgian some kind of 'prestige' (though that's probably a too strong word xp ), but it didn't fit the needs. I believe the A321 will be a much better choice. The only disadvantage is for the long haul transport and larger cargo transports, but hey, NATO partners enough.

[Streetstream]

probably not going to happen due to the fact that politics plays a big part in the kind of aircraft our country's Air Force operates, but wouldn't a B787 be the best suited plane here? Smaller than an A330-300, yet with more range and cargo space than an A321? A suitable medium sized plane with sufficient range, ideal for our country's airlift may not be available from Airbus, but it may be from a non-EU manufacturer.

Why not take the A330-200? Will be cheaper than a 787.

[Streetstream]

The only disadvantage is for the long haul transport and larger cargo transports, but hey, NATO partners enough.

And with the A400M coming (i know, it's still a while) the cargo portion will be taken care of. It is quite a bit larger than the C 130.

[Boavida]

So will this A321 will have 'Belgian Air Force' titles on it, or will it be a boring nameless white bird again... like the A330?

[Streetstream]

So will this A321 will have 'Belgian Air Force' titles on it, or will it be a boring nameless white bird again... like the A330?

Am i missing something?

Isn't this the BAF A330? Hardly a boring nameless white bird.

[Airbus A330]

The titles were removed in 2010.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 369350.jpg

[hvs89]

I don't remember, what was the reason to remove the titles?

[flieger]

@hvs

Titles were removed because HiFly used the plane for Brussels Airlines at some point.
So, as members have stated on this forum, a commercial airline can get involved in military transport.
However, the other way around is not allowed by law, therefore the titles were removed, to not make it seem the military was transporting commercial passengers (even though operating through a HiFly lease)

[Lenoest]

The aircraft livery is certainly part of the contractual deal between the provider and the government. If the deal covers an exclusive usage of the aircraft, it is legitimate to see a clear "Belgian Air Force" branding. However, it the tender and contract is limited to a certain number of hours per year, with the possibility for the provider to use the aircraft for other customer additional to the "BAF" utilization, then it makes sense to keep the aircraft livery as neutral as possible. The second option, which was applicable to the A330 and presumably also to the A321, is obviously cheaper for the customer, as the aircraft leasing cost is spread over the different customers.
On a different subject, commenting on above quotes, I am sure that different Belgian Airlines have answered to the tender from the government, but were not selected. This is the minister decision and we can only trust that the choice was based on solid arguments.

[Streetstream]

The titles were removed in 2010.

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-p ... 369350.jpg

Still, i would hardly call that a white bird. Nameless? Yes. But a white bird? No.

[Boavida]

So when will we see this A321 in BAF colors?

[Airbus A330]

So when will we see this A321 in BAF colors?

This A321 will be delivered in February but the livery is still unknown.

[Ecam]

...They are making a wise choice. Much better than those ex-SQ A310's that had problem after problem and could never be dispatched when needed.

Is this hear-say, or newspaper BS
They did have problems at the end of their career, like any rare aircraft that is (was) 25 years old and had more than 35000 flt Hrs. It appeared highlighted in the press when journalists were on board hiking a free ride, but being pissed because they wouldn’t be back home in time, writing that Air Flahaut was grounded "again".
Unlike regular airlines, the BAF had no direct technical support on any airport in the world for the A310, except at home base. For an aircraft that had become a rarity, needing critical spare parts meant inevitably getting stuck big time, even with a maintenance contractor as huge as LHT.
The “new” A321 in casu is already 15 years old. I hope the Low Cost Turcs maintained them as they should, and that HiFly has experienced mechanics. In any case, they have a spare aircraft at hand, an A310...

Any idea of the BAF C-130 reliability these days ? Probably not, as this very rarely appears in the press. I guess journos prefer an A330 over riding two days in a Herk to reach Afghanistan or the Congo, if they make it in two days.

Stating that they “could never be dispatched when needed” is ridiculous. CA 01 was f.e. used for relief flights to Haiti after the earthquake back in 2010, although the A330 was already in service.
The problem with the BAF “strategic airlifter” was the decision to go the cheap way and buy the SIA A310’s equipped with the P&W JT-9 engines. As it turned out, the expenses and bad publicity came later.
At the end, the only remaining repair station for the ancient JT-9 was Eagle Services Asia in Singapore. Engine spares where hard to find. Bad management did the rest.
Its ironic that at the end of their career both aircraft and the five engines (one spare) were up to the latest mod. specs, only to be given away for change to a Dutch used truck dealer. Three years later they are still awaiting a customer, rotting away in the process. What a waste. I wouldn't be surprised that he already made a profit just by selling the spare engine.
Range was an issue with the A310, which could have been solved by acquiring -300 aircraft and not the -200. Though it was greater than that of an A321.
But as is often the case, the acquisition price was the most interesting feature of these ex-SIA aircraft.
Hopefully the chosen A321 is ETOPS certified to get faster over the Atlantic, although presumably it is not (yet ?). Luckily Keflavik is within range on the Chicken route. At least the A321 won’t be a rarity at most of the civil airports it will be operated to.
Was it not for their engine type, mismanagement and a minister with an ego, both A310 would probably still be operational. In all, they served well, in contrary to what was reflected in the press.
I also read in the opening message that the current A330’s “availability” is 99%.
In the HiFly case that “dispatch reliability” is only counted when the aircraft is supposed to fly. Missions have to be booked with HiFly in advance. Between these planned missions, when the aircraft is not operational it has no negative effect on the availability balance sheet. That way, reaching a whopping 99% is not difficult for an aircraft that flies an average of less than 4hrs a day.

As for the earlier mention on this thread that the BAF should acquire an A330-200 or even a B787, the wet dream of the BAF is to acquire an A330 MRTT. But for the time being, it will be a single A321.
With a minister already dreaming of the F-35 fighter to replace the F-16, and the introduction of the A400 in '19, perhaps when some other operator decides their A330 MRTT are getting uneconomical to operate, that Belgium will be able to afford one.

[Airbus A330]

Hello everybody,

I have a little question (not really on topic but it concerns the fleet renewal of the BAF):

Which aircraft type would/could replace the 2 ageeing Falcon 20 (if they will be replaced)?

[Inquirer]

Any news on when we will be able to see this new plane in Brussels?
I flew in from FRA this morning and all I noticed what a really huge fleet of Airbus planes from 'de witte producten' in front of the hangars: you could set up a nice airline with what's standing there!

[Boavida]

Any news on when we will be able to see this new plane in Brussels?

Nobody has more info? We're already february...

[Boavida]

Via Twitter:

Ian Wheadon ‏@AFCBIWheadon 14 feb.
Ex Onur Air A321 EI-FDP arriving at our East Midlands facility this afternoon ready for a full repaint into Belgian …http://lnkd.in/d_cp5sT

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