Carbon tax: higher prices for tickets and controversy

[sn26567]

(10 euros = 7,7 dollars)

10 euros = 12,724 dollars tonight.

[Squelsh]

Not sure, but I heard that the fuel for airliners in Belgium is acijnzen-free. Good thing they left that untouched and didn't invent some back-cliquet tax-system on that, as with regular fuel for consumers in Belgium. That would end up in a massacre when one sees the rising oil prices
.
Outta look up the technical specs of this EU law, because as mentioned, and very valid question indeed, does this also go for bio-fuels or does this go at a different rate? Burning is reacting with oxygen, making carbon dioxide (= a greenhouse gas), but so is breathing (if not enough oxygen = carbonmonoxide ). And they say they want to lower emission of all greenhouse gasses, so even if you fly on coal, ethanol or cow-farts? 'd love to see that text
.

[tolipanebas]

Well, airazurxtror, maybe SN learnt a valuable lesson from FR and count like FR, meaning as follows:

3 euro carbon tax PER LEG = 6 euro + 2 euro payment fee PER LEG = 4 euro, makes a total of 10 euro

Surely you as an FR fanboy must know how terribly expensive it is be for an airline to process and pay taxes, don't you??? After all, FR is the world's favorite high fee airline!

[airazurxtror]

Well, airazurxtror, maybe SN learnt a valuable lesson from FR

Brussels Airlines sure could learn some valuable lessons from Ryanair, in more than one field ...

[OO-ITR]

Well, airazurxtror, maybe SN learnt a valuable lesson from FR

Brussels Airlines sure could learn some valuable lessons from Ryanair, in more than one field ...

yes sure : like being profitable thanks to threatening governements for subventions and aircraft makers to sell planes with a loss!

[airazurxtror]

(10 euros = 7,7 dollars)

10 euros = 12,724 dollars tonight.

Sorry, I got it the wrong way.
That makes the difference still greater ...

[tolipanebas]

Just what is your problem exactly, airazurxtror?

Surely you can not have a problem with an airline looking to make a profit on their activities, do you?

FWIW, FR isn't a non-profit public transport service either, is it?
Looking at their financial results, it's easy to argue they must be massively overcharging all of their poor customers on all possible fronts too and could thus very well do away with some of their notoriously inventive and ridiculously high add-on fees.

What's it going to be, airazurxtror: free luggage for all on FR as from now? No more booking and/or payment fees? Free first drink for all on board?

[airazurxtror]

Don't try to make a diversion, tolipa : Ryanair has nothing to do with the topic.
Which is : Brussels Airlines take advantage of a CO2 tax to rise the price of its tickets much more than the amount of the said tax.
No need to pass your frustration on FR - or on me personnally (although I couldn't care less).

[cnc]

Don't try to make a diversion, tolipa : Ryanair has nothing to do with the topic.
Which is : Brussels Airlines take advantage of a CO2 tax to rise the price of its tickets much more than the amount of the said tax.
No need to pass your frustration on FR - or on me personnally (although I couldn't care less).

how obvious, you are allowed to attack SN all the time without having any knowledgde of the situation but you cry when you get "attacked"
how about next time you enforce your attack with facts and info and give counter arguments instead of behaving like a child

[sn26567]

Cool down, gentlemen, this topic is about the CO2 tax.

Air France has announced that it will also increase the price of its tickets, but it didn't say by how much.

[tolipanebas]

Don't try to make a diversion, tolipa : Ryanair has nothing to do with the topic.
Which is : Brussels Airlines take advantage of a CO2 tax to rise the price of its tickets much more than the amount of the said tax.
No need to pass your frustration on FR - or on me personnally (although I couldn't care less).

May I point out to you that this topic by SN25567 is all about the EU's ETS introduction and the consequences on ticket fares it will have allover the globe, with several airlines briefly mentioned as an illustration?

As such, and contrary to what you make of it, this topic is not about SN taking advantage of anything at all really, at least not until you clearly felt the irresistible need to highjack this general discussion on the ETS introduction with several off topic remarks about a single airline of your clear disliking in your very first reply to this topic...

Seems to me that if anybody is overly frustrated, it is you, sir and for somebody who pretends he couldn't care less, you certainly do have a very hard time not giving exactly the opposite impression here in every single topic even remotely connected to the airline of your clear disliking.

[airazurxtror]

After all, that's right, Ryanair can fit into this topic :

As of Monday, January 16, Ryanair will introduce a new surcharge of € 0.25 per ticket. The low-cost recoups the cost of the European carbon tax which should cost it 18 to 20 million euros in 2012.
It so mimics Brussels Airlines that has also added a surcharge (from 3 to 10 euros depending on the destination), while Air France - KLM and Lufthansa announced that they would do the same, without specifying when and how.

http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-01-10-ta ... 42486.html

[sn26567]

The Canadian companies Air Transat and Air Canada do not agree with the tax, but have decided that they will not increase the price of their tickets to Europe.

[epsilon]

Well, airazurxtror, maybe SN learnt a valuable lesson from FR and count like FR, meaning as follows:

3 euro carbon tax PER LEG = 6 euro + 2 euro payment fee PER LEG = 4 euro, makes a total of 10 euro

Surely you as an FR fanboy must know how terribly expensive it is be for an airline to process and pay taxes, don't you??? After all, FR is the world's favorite high fee airline!

FR announced a 25 cent tax per seat
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/ ... 2F20120109

[airazurxtror]

http://www.china.org.cn/business/2012-0 ... 563842.htm
http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-02-06-la ... 43865.html

China decidedly does not accept the CO2 tax.
The Chinese airlines are forbidden to pay it.

[regi]

and Europe immediately reacted that it will not give in to Chinese pressure.
What will happen in fact is that the bill will be added up for a year. And if the Chinese carriers don't pay the bill, than will start the trouble of impounding , law suits etcetera.
At this moment, I think it is too early to say what will really happen.

By the way: the fact that the Chinese government forbid Chinese carriers to pay the carbon tax is just another clear sign that China is a one party, centrally directed dictatorship. Free entreprise is just a empty word.

[sn26567]

Airbus and European airlines plead for action on ETS

The bosses of British Airways, Virgin Atlantic, Air France, Lufthansa, Air Berlin and Iberia have written to the leaders of the UK, France, Germany and Spain expressing their concerns about the impact of ETS on their businesses. European aircraft manufacturers including Airbus, Safran and MTU have also signed the letter.

The companies warn that they are facing possible “counter-measures and restrictions” from countries outside the EU – such as China, Russia, India and the US - which are opposed to the introduction of ETS. Countries opposed to ETS met in Moscow last month to discuss their options.

The letter says that approval for a $12 billion contract for Airbus aircraft from China has already been suspended due to the row over emissions trading. Chinese authorities have also told their airlines not to pay ETS.

The chief executives also expect this kind of retaliation to intensify as the year goes on and will become “intolerable for the European aviation industry”.

"This is a situation that Europe can ill-afford in the current economic climate," said the CEOs who have called for consultation with the EU Council over the issue.

"We have always believed that only a global solution would be adequate to resolve the problem of global aviation emissions. This solution can only be found in ICAOThe International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO): A UN agency which acts as the global forum for civil aviation. Its main goal is to achieve safe, secure and sustainable development of civil aviation. , which has recently appointed a high level dedicated group to propose a global framework for international aviation emissions by the end of this year."

The CEOs added they were in favour of an emissions trading scheme but it had to be applied globally rather than in separate regions. They urged the four European prime ministers to “find an acceptable solution within as short a time frame as possible”.

Source: ABTN

See also an article in The European Voice: http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/20 ... 73840.aspx

[tsv]

China and now India have said they are not paying.

I think they have a point, what the Europeans are attempting to do is not much different than the Russians charging exorbitant over flight fees.

China, India and Russia & anyone else can easily retaliate by charging a similar tax on flights over their Territories.

So really we either need a Global System or we don't need a system at all. And if we do need a Global system why restrict it to Airplanes which don't emit as much Carbon as other vehicles?

I'm pretty confident the European Carbon tax in it's current format won't work.

[regi]

I'm pretty confident the European Carbon tax in it's current format won't work.

I am not sure that it was meant to work . But it has been set up to give a signal .
About refusing to pay: if the bill goes to a company , it has to pay, whatever its government of origin says. The end result could be impounding the airplanes. See the story of the Thai B737 impounded at Munich .

[tsv]

I'm pretty confident the European Carbon tax in it's current format won't work.

I am not sure that it was meant to work . But it has been set up to give a signal .
About refusing to pay: if the bill goes to a company , it has to pay, whatever its government of origin says. The end result could be impounding the airplanes. See the story of the Thai B737 impounded at Munich .

Yeah well they've sent a signal and one is coming back at them, it looks suspiciously like a two finger salute;

http://junkscience.com/2012/03/05/carbo ... -airlines/

So far China has told their Airlines to ignore it (we'll have to see how that plays out) and cancelled Airbus Orders, Russia is going to make the Europeans fly via the South Pole or something similar and India is talking about trade wars.

Somehow I don't think we'll see Airliners impounded.

To the contrary I'm tipping the Europeans will find a way to graciously back out of this one before the consequences start to bite and it becomes unpopular with the Public. I can't believe European Voters are keen to start trade wars in this Economic Environment.