Registration SN3811 BRU-OPO 20 Dec: Is disclosure a risk?

[teddybAIR]

No, I don't think that disclosing a flights reg in advance increases the risk related to the execution to a flight. Neither do I believe that a company should disclose this type of info. I'm afraid the simple answer lies in the contracts of employees with their employers. If this prohibits them from sharing the info, then it is considered illegal, period. Consequently, you can share the info, but that is your personal choice...for which you should be prepared to bare the consequences.

[tolipanebas]

There really is no secrecy in knowing which plane will operate what route, nor is there a security issue with this.

Basically everybody with access to the network IT structure of the airline can look it up in a second, as well as everybody who's operationally involved with the airline (not even the flight): pilots, cabin crew, planning, rostering, dispatch, maintenance: about 2/3rd of staff so to say. The hard time is finding somebody actually bothering to do that for you.

Also, keep in mind that at least at SN, planes are regularly swapped (up to 50 min before departure) to minimize delay for the network and especially with todays WX conditions, any information retreived can change rapidly and is of no real value whatsoever.

[teddybAIR]

Hey tolipanebas, we now they can find the info, but does the employer allow or prohibityou to share it in an explicit way?

[tolipanebas]

It's definitely not prohibited explicitly.

Now you can always argue that an employee shoudn't use facts he's come to know through his job, but then nobody working at an airport/airline should ever be commenting on this website too for instance.

How many times aren't people looking up the load on a certain flight because they've listed as standby pax on it and want to know if they will be able to leave with it? Or how many times do you think I get a mail from somebody in the company to tell me a relative of him/her will be on my flight and whether he/she can come to visit the flightdeck?

That kind of use is not forbidden as it is totally harmless.
In fact, it even contributes to an efficient working environment, as well as to the personal comfort/pleasure of all involved. The idea to see it as highly dangerous thing to share this kind of information and to suspect anybody who's doing it of terrorism, is proof of a person out of synch with the realities of aviation...

[teddybAIR]

Well, must say I am glad to hear that is the corporate policy: makes the world a better place, doesn't it?

[regi]

Despite that I am critical about the remark by NCB

If anyone provides you with such information, he/she should be reported.

and the lack of any lead/proof that this remark is based on a official guideline, I do have a remark to make to the other members. Brussels airport is guarded 24h/24h by military combat units. ( these are not the heavely armed guys inside the airport, that is police of a specific branch ) If you have never seen them, it is because they did perform well their job.
A link to the military labour union ( I am sure that some non-Belgians rise their eyebrows now for sure ! http://www.vsoa-defensie.be/userfiles/f ... _wacht.pdf http://www.acmp-cgpm.be/Documenten/Nieu ... 0910_N.pdf )
Those military receive every day a printed list of sensitive flights. There is 1 specific Asian airline that always has top priority. On the list you read the airline, the estimated arrival/departure time, the location and the specific code of alert. Very frustrating for the guard units is that this list is always correct , except of that 1 Asian airline. Sometimes they arrive hours too late and the unit on the ground has to stay put. Sometimes they don't arrive at all. ( no, it is not Biman ) and the unit is not warned by the airport police (who organises this watch system.)
But it is not about the airplane registration nr. It happened that this Asian airline had 2 flights arriving with a small interval. ( while only 1 flight is on the list ) After the first arrival the airport police gave a specific code that the highest alert was still on. You understand it when the second airplane arrives 30 minutes later and only than the alert is called off.
So if reg. nrs. of the best guarded airline of the world don't matter, I don't see the point of NCB. Not yet, still waiting. And if the military labour unions put very detailed informations about guard rotation, armement and units on the internet, I am even more critical about NCB his remark.

[NCB]

I don't care what you think Regi or anyone else for that matter.

You guys must have missed this article today:
http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/957/Belgie/art ... aine.dhtml

10 LUGGAGE HANDLERS WORKING AT BRUSSELS AIRPORT ARRESTED FOR SMUGGLING DRUGS.
20 dec 2010.

Yes whatever. Get some sense of reality, will you.
Mr. Tolipanebas, check your work regulations, chapter 12, under "secrecy".

Is this forum full of 12 year olds or what?

Information can be used by people in many ways, for drug smuggling, planning terrorist attacks, etc...
The young people of these days who are cuddled by mom and dad have lost the sense of awareness. Release them in a forest and they'll commit suicide before they even cross the first wild animal.

Mr. Luchtzak, please cancel my membership as soon as possible.

[tolipanebas]

Mister NCB, GW Bush is out of office since january 2009, and so paranoia has left the building!

As to SN's work regulations, read the context please and understand that confidentiality is not applicable to ridiculous items as 'which plane is operating what flight' for instance, nor about 'how many open seats are there on the flight tomorrow'.

Otherwise, quite a lot of employees are constantly engaging in terrorist-like activities throughout all companies.

As so many times, you seem to have a big problem understanding there is a huge difference between theory and reality, whether that is about the Q400, the AFI network or this.

[HighInTheSky]

Mr. Luchtzak, please cancel my membership as soon as possible.

You are the weakest link, goodbye!

Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

[tolipanebas]

Mr. Luchtzak, please cancel my membership as soon as possible.

Didn't you already announce this move more than a year ago too, when you were angry because people dared to punch loads of holes in your 'fabulous project' of sending A320s to Central Africa?

What held you back if I may ask? Certainly not popular request, I should think...

[NCB]

From the moment you sign the regulation, you are binded to apply it. The confidentiality clause is included in the work regulation, under chapter 12 as you can read it.

It's not a matter of acting like terrorists or not.

It's got nothing to do with paranoia, just common sense security protocol.
Be reminded that aircraft can be targets on themselves but history has proven that they can be used as weapons as well.

Spontaneously providing reg info is also different from answering a request for a reg.
Who knows, maybe this bxleu guy was smuggling drugs and wanted someone to tell him in advance which aircraft he should deposit it on. The same could be done with a bomb.
And if those 10 guys!! from the news article managed to smuggle drugs at BRU for several months, it is realistically possible that someone could be thinking of smuggling bombs on board.
Homejacking is also a very good motivator for people to do things that they don't want to do.

I think that you are way too lax on your security attitude. Very unprofessional, even more to attack people who are giving a good example of a good security culture and mindset.

Belgium is at war, but here we are so safe that we can give any information to anyone. Right?

You can spoil the children by letting them know things they don't need to know.
Or you can keep them safe by not telling them.

But I think that this forum is special (like airliners.net), in the sense that there is no common sense.
Just useless debates where there is nothing to debate about to start with, only people exploring the outer limits of reality and seeking internet status by publishing confidential company information.

Ask these questions in a survey on hln.be and it'll be a totally different thing.

If you're a passenger, I'm sorry that you have to read this.
But don't worry, Tolipanebas always has a captain sitting next to him.

[Conti764]

Is this an official guideline about reporting private people who tell in advance the reg. nr. of a particular flight?

From the moment the info comes from inside, the source is no longer a "private people" but an indiscretion by an employee of a company.
Yes, Mr. regi there are guidelines that are often breached here, which refrain employees from posting operational, commercial and other company information to the media, for the sake of safety, security and commercial/competitive reasons, unless they are publicly published.

It's nice for some people to be willing to share information, but you can only do damage to yourself, your colleagues and your company by doing so, without any merits in return.

It doesn't make a difference in the world to know in advance what airplane one is going to be on. Even less to know what flight it will be operating before.

The poster bxleu probably doesn't have bad intentions but you don't want people with less good intentions to take advantage of the helpfulness of some loose mouthes.

Cathay, you should be thankful that there's people taking your security as traveler seriously.

C'mon, quit the bollocks! When I was flying AMS to AYT some time ago, I could see the registration of my plane in advance to the flight, publically listed on schiphol.nl

Besides, if this info is so sensitive, then why is it so easy available for everyone with a Staffpages login at BRU? And it's not like these staff pages are so tightly secured!

[tolipanebas]

From the moment you sign the regulation, you are binded to apply it. The confidentiality clause is included in the work regulation, under chapter 12 as you can read it.

I didn't sign anything though...

Besides, get real, we're not talking about corporate secrets or security policies here, we're talking about obious requests from a spotter!

Soon asking which runway in use is going to be suspicious too, right?

Belgium is at war, but here we are so safe that we can give any information to anyone. Right?

Belgium is NOT at war and if you really think so, you're a complete nutcase, I am sorry to say!

As I've said: GWB has left the building dude, and with him the days of paranoia; it's back to common sense since January 2009.

[tangolima]

Belgium is at war

Hello,

Where are the rockets ? I still feel save.

I think Brussel has one of the most paranoia security. The just hunt spotters away. And Spotters can help the airport . If they see something strange they can contact the airport authority... and in no time the security will know it too.

Like what kind of stupid thing is it when there is a EU-top to put cars in front of the fence if a terrorist wants to shoot a plane he can also do it when the plane departs or arrives.

@ Cathay Pacific What was your registration by the way. ?

Greetings,

[NCB]

If you were so sure, why didn't you post the reg info Tolipanebas?

Like what kind of stupid thing is it when there is a EU-top to put cars in front of the fence if a terrorist wants to shoot a plane he can also do it when the plane departs or arrives.

Ever heard of satellite surveillance?
Unfortunately, satellites can't shoot yet and they can't cover every corner either, which is why you still need physical assets. UAV's are used in Afghanistan to combine the best of both worlds, satellite-like surveillance and intervention power.

If you thought that AF1 only has chaffs, flares and jamming to protect itself, you are very naive.

Seriously, are you going to advise how security should be run?
I'm not even an amateur in this branch but this is a minimum that anyone knows.

Perhaps the lack of military service is what makes the youth of today fall short on these matters?

[tolipanebas]

If you were so sure, why didn't you post the reg info Tolipanebas?

Can you say for sure I didn't?

Perhaps the lack of military service is what makes the youth of today fall short on these matters?

Yes, we know, we're at war and we're all going to die unless we fight and follow our great leader, who clearly knows it all.

Hail to the chief...

You sound like an embittered old man, NCB, utterly frustrated by the fact you clearly don't understand a thing about the world around you any longer, which others simply call today's reality.

[sn26567]

To answer the first question of this thread, SN3811 BRU-OPO has left at 18:39, i.e. 6 hr 39 min behind schedule. But it does not appear neither on radarvituel, nor on flightradar24, nor on Casper. It seems to be a stealth aircraft, hence I still cannot find its registration

[OO-JFP]

by sn26567 » 20 Dec 2010 08:20 pm

To answer the first question of this thread, SN3811 BRU-OPO has left at 18:39, i.e. 6 hr 39 min behind schedule. But it does not appear neither on radarvituel, nor on flightradar24, nor on Casper. It seems to be a stealth aircraft, hence I still cannot find its registration To answer the first question of this thread, SN3811 BRU-OPO has left at 18:39, i.e. 6 hr 39 min behind schedule. But it does not appear neither on radarvituel, nor on flightradar24, nor on Casper. It seems to be a stealth aircraft, hence I still cannot find its registration

It"s still on the ground. New departure time 19.40 according to the Brussels airport website.
OO-JFP

[NCB]

Why is this flight delayed by this much time when other flights are operating with 2 or 3 hours delay?
Is it an operational or security delay?

[sdbelgium]

Why is this flight delayed by this much time?

Make a guess... Tip: look outside and at the very "interesting" de-icing topic.