Pilot strike announced for 22-25 February at Lufthansa

[Air Key West]

Thanks for the info. The European Cockpit Association represents crew of most European airlines. Instead, I was thinking of an umbrella organisation for all crew working for the LH Group (LH parent company and its subsidiaries = airlines totally owned by LH or over which LH has a significant control).

[tolipanebas]

I was thinking of an umbrella organisation for all crew working for the LH Group (LH parent company and its subsidiaries = airlines totally owned by LH or over which LH has a significant control).

That already exists for some time, my friend.
It's oviously not a union as such (since transnational unions don't really exist), but there is an umbrella organisation gathering all the Pilot Organisations of the different airlines in the LH group; LH, LX, OS, BD and SN, aimed at exchanging information so as to increase our global bargaining position.

[euroflyer]

Apparently, in theory, there is a European works council (Europese ondernemingsraad/comité d'entreprise européen) for LH and its subsidiaries, which was set up in 1996. See below.
http://www.ewcdb.org/show_pdf_first_pag ... nt=258.pdf
Is this works council active ? Have pilots unions been invited, informed, consulted ? I know that European works councils are not very useful for employees, but they are better than nothing.
Otherwise, what about taking the intiative to create an international union for LH Group pilots bringing together the national unions under one roof ?

EWCs certainly are useful for employees, but not for organising industrial action! They are in place to "inform and consult" the employees and of course they have to be informed and consulted about major chagnes in the structure of a company. However, industrial disputes or bargaining which affect only employees in ONE country are no subject for a EWC by definition.

Plus, as LH's share holding in SN is still below 50% I am quite sure the SN staff is not yet represented in the LH EWC.

[euroflyer]

That already exists for some time, my friend.
...
aimed at exchanging information so as to increase our global bargaining position.

And it will never work Have seen the same in other industries often enough, it is all fine about information exchange as long as it is general. Once it gets real, it is the end of the story and of solidarity . At the end of the day it is the job of each union official to work for HIS/HER members and to secure the most for them. HE/SHE will not get any real, longterm positive feedback for helping colleagues in other countries. If you do not believe, ask somebody at Opel, or Saab or anywhere else. It cannot and will not work

[sn26567]

Michel Ghesquière from Pagtour.net writes an interesting comment:

Lufthansa pilots on strike because of Brussels Airlines

German workers find it normal to shut down plants abroad (for example Opel in Antwerp) to save their jobs, but react angrily when the reverse happens. This is happening right now with Lufthansa, which aims at positioning itself as a European company rather than a German one.

German pilots do not like this at all. When reading between the lines of the press release, Lufthansa should act like Swissair did with Sabena: dismantle the company and take the best parts home.

The main reason for the Lufthansa pilots' strike is to "secure the jobs of the Lufthansa workers in Germany and to oppose any transfer of operations abroad. Because Lufthansa is replacing more and more some of its own flights by flights operated by airlines acquired in foreign countries such as Brussels Airlines, Austrian Airlines or British Midlands", explains the pilots’ association Vereinigung Cockpit.

[euroflyer]

Michel Ghesquière from Pagtour.net writes an interesting comment:

Lufthansa pilots on strike because of Brussels Airlines

German workers find it normal to shut down plants abroad (for example Opel in Antwerp) to save their jobs, but react angrily when the reverse happens. This is happening right now with Lufthansa, which aims at positioning itself as a European company rather than a German one.

German pilots do not like this at all. When reading between the lines of the press release, Lufthansa should act like Swissair did with Sabena: dismantle the company and take the best parts home.

The main reason for the Lufthansa pilots' strike is to "secure the jobs of the Lufthansa workers in Germany and to oppose any transfer of operations abroad. Because Lufthansa is replacing more and more some of its own flights by flights operated by airlines acquired in foreign countries such as Brussels Airlines, Austrian Airlines or British Midlands", explains the pilots’ association Vereinigung Cockpit.

Well, just as I wrote above, this does not look like solidarity, forget it

Currently, the issue is purely internal to LH airlines, but it could turn international indeed, in which case my proposal is what is likely going to be the united unions point of view, as it suits all of us. For once, this is an easy one on our side, really!

Hm, really not so sure about this ... the fight is more about whose planes (and jobs) will have to be parked in the desert and who will have the chance for growth ...

[Air Key West]

LH pilots are fighting to keep their jobs, they are not asking that pilots with other airlines loose their jobs. Their claim is that no pure LH flights be externalised to cheaper operaters within the group, which is only legitimate and if they win this battle, nobody among the pilots of all LH Group airlines will loose anything.
It's not a question of solidarity, it is question of logic and fighting for what one has got without necessarily damaging others. I don't think the LH pilots are attacking other airlines or pilots at other airlines. They are warning their own management that the latter will not be allowed to exclusively act as they please.

[tolipanebas]

the fight is more about whose planes (and jobs) will have to be parked in the desert and who will have the chance for growth ...

WRONG, that's what the MEDIA make of it, by focussing on foreign companies LH has recently bought into, but the issue is MAINLY with the different domestic subsidiaries like Augsburg Airways, operating E195 and thus replacing mainline 737 operations with it.

Ever wondered why the E195 from Augsburg Airlines for instance do not operate under the LH brand, but rather show their own colours and name???? It's because LH is trying to sneak out from under previous agreements with VC and is claiming to simply codeshare on flights of Augsburg Airlines iso admitting they let them operate LH mainline flights under a wetlease agreement!

Besides, can you show me what production SN took away from LH? LH has indeed stopped HAM and TXL, yet SN stopped MUC and will soon discontinue its single remaining flight to FRA, so that seems like a fair partition of work to me?

You should get your information from other sources than the popular press, because they have a habit of mixing things up and looking for the easiest explanation for events....

[euroflyer]

Sorry, but I HAVE different sources of information. Maybe you are just a little bit one-sided here (not ment as offense!) Just one example to justify my input here: VC itself gave the example of bmi operating TXL-LHR since autumn as one reason for their strike. A route neither bmi nor LH has not been operating for some time. It is now a "LH" flight according to the timetable, but the plane and the pilots are from bmi. I know very well the issue around the domestic regional carriers and the collective agreements stoping LH from passing on bigger planes to be operated by them, but VC is less and less focussing on them as a problem (why? simple: pilots there are VC members as well!) and more on the new foreign subsidiaries.

By the way, today VC has asked the LH CEO for an urgent meeting at top level (not the other way round!) in order to find a solution. I guess they are somewhat surprised by the rather harsh attitude LH has shown by rather preparing forthe strike than trying to find a compromise.

[sn26567]

Lufthansa Special Flight Schedule at www.lufthansa.com

As a consequence of the strike measures which have been initiated by the “Vereinigung Cockpit” trade union, Lufthansa is making corresponding adjustments to its flight schedule from Monday to Thursday, 22 to 25 February. About two third of the affected Lufthansa flights will have to be cancelled. Lufthansa regional partners will operate their flights almost according to schedule.

The special flight schedule for the period of the strike can be accessed as of now at www.lufthansa.com and lists all flights which should be operating according to a current planning. Depending upon the actual operating conditions during the days of the strike, further changes could be made to the special flight schedule.

Customers, who have bought a Lufthansa ticket for a flight which is operated by a partner airline (Codeshare), will not find the LH flight number known to them in the special flight schedule. Since the partner airlines are not affected by the strike, these flights will operate as planned.

Lufthansa is doing everything in its power to inform its customers as soon as possible and to offer alternative travel possibilities. Passengers already booked on a Lufthansa flight in the period from 22 to 25 February can rebook one time free of charge on another Luf-thansa flight, if they wish to change their travel plans – provided their ticket was issued before 18 February, the new travel date is before 31 May 2010 and no change is made in their departure and arrival destination.

Should the flight be cancelled and due to that the purpose of the journey no longer apply, cancellation of the booking is also possible free of charge. Passengers have the opportunity to regularly check the status of their booking at www.lufthansa.com, under the head-ing “My bookings”. A cancellation of the flight and the booking will be shown there. If a rebooking has been made, the travel alternatives will be shown there as well.

Passengers on domestic flights, whose flights have been cancelled, can independently purchase a rail ticket for the identical route in the same travel class and later, together with proof of the flight ticket purchased from Lufthansa, claim a refund. They can access the passenger receipt of their etix online at www.lufthansa.com under Information & Service > Check-in > Passenger Receipt.

Customers can continue to obtain information about their bookings, as well as about the possibilities of rebookings and cancellations, on the cost-free number 0800 / 8 50 60 70 (from Germany).

Deutsche Lufthansa AG Corporate Communication press release 19.02.10

[sn26567]

LH Flights to/from Brussels operated on 22 Feb 2010

4571 Brussels Frankfurt 22. Feb. 10 08:40 22. Feb. 10 09:40
LH
4580 Frankfurt Brussels 22. Feb. 10 16:15 22. Feb. 10 17:10
4581 Brussels Frankfurt 22. Feb. 10 17:50 22. Feb. 10 18:50
LH
4588 Frankfurt Brussels 22. Feb. 10 19:00 22. Feb. 10 19:55
4589 Brussels Frankfurt 22. Feb. 10 20:30 22. Feb. 10 21:30
LH
4593 Brussels Frankfurt 22. Feb. 10 07:15 22. Feb. 10 08:15
4600 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 06:50 22. Feb. 10 08:15
LH
4601 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 08:55 22. Feb. 10 10:15
4602 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 09:05 22. Feb. 10 10:30
LH
4603 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 11:10 22. Feb. 10 12:30
4604 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 10:45 22. Feb. 10 12:10
LH
4605 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 13:05 22. Feb. 10 14:25
4606 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 12:55 22. Feb. 10 14:20
LH
4607 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 15:05 22. Feb. 10 16:25
4608 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 15:15 22. Feb. 10 16:40
LH
4609 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 17:25 22. Feb. 10 18:45
4610 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 16:55 22. Feb. 10 18:20
LH
4611 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 19:00 22. Feb. 10 20:20
4612 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 19:15 22. Feb. 10 20:40
LH
4613 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 21:20 22. Feb. 10 22:40
4614 Munich Brussels 22. Feb. 10 21:05 22. Feb. 10 22:30
LH
4615 Brussels Munich 22. Feb. 10 06:45 22. Feb. 10 08:05
4630 Stuttgart Brussels 22. Feb. 10 06:50 22. Feb. 10 08:20
LH
4631 Brussels Stuttgart 22. Feb. 10 08:50 22. Feb. 10 10:10
4634 Stuttgart Brussels 22. Feb. 10 14:20 22. Feb. 10 15:50
LH
4635 Brussels Stuttgart 22. Feb. 10 16:20 22. Feb. 10 17:40
4636 Stuttgart Brussels 22. Feb. 10 18:30 22. Feb. 10 20:00
LH
4637 Brussels Stuttgart 22. Feb. 10 20:35 22. Feb. 10 21:55
4650 Hannover Brussels 22. Feb. 10 07:00 22. Feb. 10 08:20
LH
4651 Brussels Hannover 22. Feb. 10 09:00 22. Feb. 10 10:20
4654 Hannover Brussels 22. Feb. 10 18:45 22. Feb. 10 20:05
LH
4655 Brussels Hannover 22. Feb. 10 20:35 22. Feb. 10 21:55
4656 Nuremberg Brussels 22. Feb. 10 07:15 22. Feb. 10 08:30
LH
4657 Brussels Nuremberg 22. Feb. 10 09:00 22. Feb. 10 10:10
4658 Nuremberg Brussels 22. Feb. 10 18:10 22. Feb. 10 19:25
LH
4659 Brussels Nuremberg 22. Feb. 10 19:55 22. Feb. 10 21:05

Similar schedules are available on www.lufthansa.com for 23, 24 and 25 Feb 2010

[euroflyer]

the fight is more about whose planes (and jobs) will have to be parked in the desert and who will have the chance for growth ...

WRONG, that's what the MEDIA make of it, by focussing on foreign companies LH has recently bought into, but the issue is MAINLY with the different domestic subsidiaries like Augsburg Airways, operating E195 and thus replacing mainline 737 operations with it.
...

SORRY, CLEARLY WRONG, this is the latest statement from VC of today:

"Wir können nicht dabei zugucken, wie deutsche Arbeitsplätze ins Ausland ausgelagert werden und genau das versucht die Lufthansa", sagte VC-Sprecher Alexander Gerhard-Madjidi. "Wir wollen eine Abgrenzungsvereinbarung haben zu den Auslandstöchtern."

in English for all of you: "We cannot watch how German jobs are being moved abroad and exactly that is what Lufthansa is trying to do. We want an agreement which draws a line between LH and the foreign daughter companies" (well,my fast translation ... ). Statement is by the press officer of VC Mr. Alexander Gehard-Madjidi.

I hope it is now clear for everybody what is the real reason for this strike. The issue with the domestic subsidiaries has been around for a long time and so far no strike. But the big amount of new foreign daughters which joined in the past two years (OS, SN, bmi) is the problem for VC and the German LH pilots.

[diminbru]

the fight is more about whose planes (and jobs) will have to be parked in the desert and who will have the chance for growth ...

WRONG, that's what the MEDIA make of it, by focussing on foreign companies LH has recently bought into, but the issue is MAINLY with the different domestic subsidiaries like Augsburg Airways, operating E195 and thus replacing mainline 737 operations with it.
...

SORRY, CLEARLY WRONG, this is the latest statement from VC of today:

"Wir können nicht dabei zugucken, wie deutsche Arbeitsplätze ins Ausland ausgelagert werden und genau das versucht die Lufthansa", sagte VC-Sprecher Alexander Gerhard-Madjidi. "Wir wollen eine Abgrenzungsvereinbarung haben zu den Auslandstöchtern."

in English for all of you: "We cannot watch how German jobs are being moved abroad and exactly that is what Lufthansa is trying to do. We want an agreement which draws a line between LH and the foreign daughter companies" (well,my fast translation ... ). Statement is by the press officer of VC Mr. Alexander Gehard-Madjidi.

I hope it is now clear for everybody what is the real reason for this strike. The issue with the domestic subsidiaries has been around for a long time and so far no strike. But the big amount of new foreign daughters which joined in the past two years (OS, SN, bmi) is the problem for VC and the German LH pilots.

WOW you are getting so carried away by this LH pilot strike...lol

[tolipanebas]

I hope it is now clear for everybody what is the real reason for this strike. The issue with the domestic subsidiaries has been around for a long time and so far no strike. But the big amount of new foreign daughters which joined in the past two years (OS, SN, bmi) is the problem for VC and the German LH pilots.

No my friend.

The long standing dispute between VC and LH is with the huge amount of LH routes flown by DOMESTIC subsidiaries of them, NOT by the few routes which shifted between the LH and the FOREIGN subsidiaries in recent times, although if LH continues with its strategy of outsourcing, that could obviously change over time, so they too have now been included into the discussion, albeit currently just as potential new ways of LH to continue and increase the much disliked outsourcing of jobs.

As I've shown you, there's no factual shift of production between SN-LH (yet), nor with LX or OS and even with BD there's only 1 route which can serve as an example really, although even that one is questionable, as it is in fact a newly started route, so not one that got transferred from LH.... On the other hand, listing all problematic routes taken over from LH mainline by the multitude of domestic regionals like Augsburg Airlines would take quite a while....

But as you say, pilots at the regionals are often also members of VC, so it's not that comfortable for VC to openly point to the most targetted airlines, so VC may publicly focus at the foreign subsidiaries now, knowing that any theoretical solution to that minor problem (which could become a real one in future indeed), will also mean a practical solution to the real problem of the many domestic subsidiaries undercutting LH mainline, and which has been looming for years.

Don't always buy the explanations given in the press: the focus on the foreign subsidiaries is just a way not to be seen fighting against some of its own members. It's nothing but a way to look more united internally, and to get more sympathy from outsiders at the same time...

[euroflyer]

Don't always buy the explanations given in the press: the focus on the foreign subsidiaries is just a way not to be seen fighting against some of its own members. It's nothing but a way to look more united internally, and to get more sympathy from outsiders at the same time...

As I tried to say above, I do not buy the press information, my friend , I have my internal information from both sides and I have a quite good knowledge of how industrial relations work in Germany (being in that business myself), be assured of this.

Why I posting all this here is just to wake some of you up (and you just prove it might be necessary ), as I see the real danger (real!) that the solution of this dispute will be one which will favor at the end both pilots at LH mainline AND at the regional German subsidiaries, but at the expense of the growth chances of the foreign subsidiaries like SN, bmi, OS, LX etcetera. This would be the best possible solution for VC as you can quite easily imagine and if they can find a way to make it somehow attractive for LH as well, the deal could be there fast.

Of course one should never believe the press releases in such issues as you said. But what I can tell you is you can never believe any remarks regarding international solidarity between employees here as well, VC will sell your future without even thinking about solidarity for a second, if it helps them (and you cannot even blame them for it, if it is for the best of their members).

WOW you are getting so carried away by this LH pilot strike..

Yes, because it affects me personally with my travel plans. But even more, because its result may very well affect the future of SN much more than the question if and when the 6th A330 may arrive or may not arrive, believe it or not ...

[cnc]

But even more, because its result may very well affect the future of SN much more than the question if and when the 6th A330 may arrive or may not arrive, believe it or not ...

wouldn't that mean VC wants to fly all routes to/from their hubs? in that case i don't see a real danger for the future as SN can focus on other routes

[euroflyer]

But even more, because its result may very well affect the future of SN much more than the question if and when the 6th A330 may arrive or may not arrive, believe it or not ...

wouldn't that mean VC wants to fly all routes to/from their hubs? in that case i don't see a real danger for the future as SN can focus on other routes

Not just to/from their hubs I think, they want to fly (in principle) all or at least as many as possible routes with LH metal and LH pilots and they want to have an influence on future LH management decisions on which daughter, be it domestic or foreign based, is going to fly which route(s).

Here http://www.vcockpit.de/fileadmin/dokume ... streik.pdf is an original VC statement which is in German and English. Read for yourself what SN is for them: a thread to the financial stability of LH and to their jobs, not more and not less ...

[Air Key West]

Reading VC's statement, I notice that there no reference to LX in it. VC seems to forget that LX was also a "less stable airline" when LH acquired it. LH turned it around successfully. BM, OS and SN are, indeed, "less stable airlines" than LH (and now LX, too), but one can assume that LH will do a good job in making these airlines sustainable even if taking over three airlines is less easy than taking over just one, LH would not habe made the decisions to buy these airlines if they were not fairly sure that the operations would be successful.
As to the reference to LH Italia, employees with long standing legacy carriers cannot expect newly created airlines to offer the same often very favourable conditions which still prevail with legacy carriers. The pressure inside the market (namely on account of LCCs) is such that everybody has to make sacrifices, today.
Most people (including me) have seen their purchasing power go down for several reasons ; it is a general trend. Although I understand that LH pilots want to fight for their jobs and pay, I don't really see the acquisition of foreign airlines as a major threat and their demand to have a say in management decisions is definitely going too far. So even if I tend to be inclined to support industrial action, this strike seems more and more to be without well founded reasons.
If BM, OS and SN had been taken over by another group (AF-KL for instance), the pressure on LH in general, and consequently also on LH pilots, would have implied more competition to face by LH whose management would have had to ask LH staff (including pilots) to give up some of their benefits for LH to be able to better counter (AF-KL) competition.
My conclusion is that the acquisition of BM, OS and SN by LH has probably more advantages than disadvantages for LH employees than having to face stronger competition from another group.

[sn26567]

If I understand you correctly, SN won't need a 6th A330, because LH will fly all future African destinations itself from FRA or MUC (if VCockpit gets it its way). And SN will have no other choice than to codeshare via FRA or MUC.

I read that “Vereinigung Cockpit“ is a member organsiation of the European Cockpit Association (ECA) and the International Federation of Airline Pilots‘ Associations (IFALPA). I guess that the SN pilots' union is also a member of these associations. One national association should not take positions that go against the interest of another national association. If I were an SN pilot I would bring the issue at my union and ask them to intervene at international level against the nationalism of the LH pilots.

[Air Key West]

Hi André ! I assume your last comment refers to euroflyer's post at 02:08.
Indeed, if you read VC's statement a second and a third time, it becomes increasingly arrogant.
In addition, they state that the agreements of 1992 and 2004 provide that flights with aircraft of 70+ seats will be flown by LH pilots. Isn't Augsburg Airways flying ERJ 195s ? Same for Cityline which also has the Avrojet RJ85 in its fleet. Is this not an inconsistency in their statement ? Has someone got more insight into this ?