High speed train VS. Airlines

b-west · Post by **b-west** » 10 Jul 2007, 12:11

Good point... I've said farewell to my car almost a year ago, can't say I really regret it. But I don't mind other people driving around, nor do I mind a bit of my taxes going to the upkeeping of the road infrastructure... that's what living in a society is all about I suppose. The greater Good

Personally I think it's rather silly to fly to Frankfurt, London or Paris, considering the ecological costs for such a short hop.

Still, as long as there's no HST driving through BRU and people are forced to go to Midi station, the advantage of such fast trains is lost on connecting passengers...

euroflyer · Post by **euroflyer** » 10 Jul 2007, 20:03

b-west wrote: Personally I think it's rather silly to fly to Frankfurt, London or Paris, considering the ecological costs for such a short hop.

I agree for Paris and London, unfortunately not for Frankfurt ... I do this trip up tp two times a week in both directions, believe me, the train still needs nearly 4 hours, from office to office it is close to 5 hours (depending of course on where your office is

), with the plane it takes normally not much more than 3 hours from office to office. So if you do this as often as I (have to) do, you loose each week more than half a Working Day by taking the train

It would be perfect (and will hopefully soon be perfect) by train, once the track between Liege/Luik/Lüttich and Cologne is finished. So far the high speed tracks still end in comfortable distance on both sides of the German/Belgian border (Welcome Europe

).

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 10 Jul 2007, 21:46

- people who don't have a car: their taxes also help building and maintaining roads

Have you already seen how much excise tax you pay on the fuel? And the VAT?
That would be about 0.60€/liter for the excise taxes (on Euro95) and 21% for the latter. Without taking into account the VAT you pay on your new car and your maintenance as well as the circulation taxes...

I think that the car business is very profitable to the State and that seen the little maintenace they do on our roads, it costs them very little too. The lightning on the roads is a luxury, but let's not talk about it.

And you can't compare the need of the road with the only need of the Thalys... Seriously, how much time do you spend yearly on the roads and how much do you on a Thalys?

Public transportations such as busses and regional trains are mandatory.
Thalys is optional.

But if they would lower their ticket prices and travel always full and make it profitable, why not? After all it's more ecological.

an-148 · Post by **an-148** » 10 Jul 2007, 21:53

Public transportations such as busses and regional trains are mandatory.
Thalys is optional.

ok, and the second has benefits.

Have you already seen how much excise tax you pay on the fuel? And the VAT?
That would be about 0.60€/liter for the excise taxes (on Euro95) and 21% for the latter. Without taking into account the VAT you pay on your new car and your maintenance as well as the circulation taxes...

When I say that ALL tax payers pay a little part of the infrastructure, I naturally expect the user to pay the most of the right to use !! When you take a plane or a train, you pay also the most of the costs: nevertheless, ALL tax payers are solidary for investing in the infrastructure!

My discussion was about not more, not less.

smokejumper · Post by **smokejumper** » 10 Jul 2007, 22:17

Generally, in the USA, the rail system is not as good as those in Europe. We have lower population densities and (except for the Northeast US) the rail service does not serve many mid-size commuities. Therefore, the auto is a preferred mode of travel.

In my own case, I will drive if a trip is 6 hours or less; if longer, I might fly. When you figure in a 2 hour-before-flight airport-arrival time, a 2 hour flight and then having to get from the airport to my desitnation, I find it easier to drive. Also, I can take golf clubs and not pack carefully, as well as have control over my trip.

For example, this weekend, I'll travel between Washington, DC and 40 miles North of Atlanta, Georgia, a distance of 600 miles (1030 km). I can drive the distance in 10 hours with several stops for fuel and food. Or, I can travel for 6.5 hours via airline (including driving to the airport, parking, check-in, security lines, flight time, getting the rental car and, driving to my destination). This time, I'll fly, but driving is often considered.

In many parts of the US West, you may travel 100 miles (162 km) or more between gasoline stations and air service may require a 200 mile (324 km) or longer drive to an airport with commuter airline service. In these places, driving your auto is the only practical choice.

FLY4HOURS.BE · Post by **FLY4HOURS.BE** » 11 Jul 2007, 03:27

I naturally expect the user to pay the most of the right to use

I tend to agree, every single of Belgium's 10 million inhabitants will use all infrastructures payed for with taxes. Nevertheless, the Thalys is a too limited service between Belgium, Germany and Paris and only a handful of people will use it on a yearly basis. It's a great luxury a big country like France and Germany can afford but not a small country like Belgium.

The worst part is Thalys doesn't even serve Paris CDG anymore. You got to take the TGV...I hope many Belgian tourists go to Paris very often and vice-versa...

Do you find it normal that a return Thalys ticket Brussels-Paris costs over 100€? For the same price Ryanair would offer you a travel around the earth...

In these times of low-cost travelling, the traveller chooses for cheap alternatives such as the international buslines Eurolines and Ecolines. If people got to pay a part of their taxes for Thalys and take cheaper alternatives I don't really see the use

Acid-drop · Post by **Acid-drop** » 11 Jul 2007, 12:23

The price is indeed too high ... when you compare to low cost.
When you compare to regular companies, it's similar i think.

The track between brussels and the german bordel is almost over: between brussels and liege there is only 5-10 min to win since the high speed track is already used, then once the gigantic train station of liege will be over, you will go faster there too, then the liege-german border line will be in service (its already done but it's too modern for the train, they need to add some equipment to the thalys/ice)

map here : http://www.belrail.be/F/tgv/images/ligne2.jpg

All this for the end of 2008. Brussels-Frankfurt in 3 hours for 400km. Not too bad. By car you would need 4 hours without trafic.
(but not as nice a Liège-Paris in 2h05 for 370 km)